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SUBJECT: WGA CIRCLES THREAD EXPANDS TO COMPUSERVE FILE: UFO1209
PART 3
to a thread in the "Science" forum about SDI origins for
some of the crop events. I'm the uploader of the original
CIRCLE.TXT, which is in the Paranormal Lib. 10 here. It's
the original thread from the "Science & Health" forum of the
(members only) BBS of the Writers' Guild of Amercia, West
(WGA), Los Angeles. That file, plus the CIS thread that
followed, called CIRCIS.TXT, are in both the SPACE and
ASTRONOMY libraries 17, "New Uploads." Another volume is
yet to come.
The thread continued - especially on ASTRONOMY/Satellite
Obseration. If you're aware of a thread in any location not
mentioned above, I'd like to hear of it. The thread kept
going after CIRCIS.TXT, and has reached quite a level of
development. I'll be uploading a "a second volume" of the
CIS thread as soon as some people have a chance to get the
last word. If you or others here haven't already seen it, I
encourage a look at CIRCLE.TXT and CIRCIS.TXT. I also
apolgize for their length, but the issues raised are of some
importance. I hope you and others will check it out.
Bob
#: 93625 S3/Satellite Observing
07-Nov-91 22:31:26
Sb: CIRCS2.TXT (CIRCLE.TXT)
Fm: Robert Sabaroff 71251,2445
To: All
CIRCS2.TXT, the continuation of the CIS thread (CIRCIS.TXT),
which was generated by CIRCLE.TXT, is currently in SPACE
Lib. 17. I hated to end it with my own response to some
comments, not wanting to steal the last word. If the thread
continues, it will be resent as soon as a less seemingly
self-serving stopping point is reached. My apologies to any
participants who may feel they were left dangling. The
upload contains directions to where the thread is, to allow
overlap before the next forum pruning.
For the sake of those among "All" who haven't tuned in, this
refers to the "crop circle" thread, debating the possibility
of (some) crop events as being artifacts of satellite borne
laser/maser/other SDI (or something) experiments.
Bob
#: 190998 S10/Paranormal Issues
08-Nov-91 20:17:05
Sb: #190159-#Crop Circles
Fm: Stephen Ryland 72345,366
To: Terry Ecker 71207,1165
Terry-
Yes, I wonder how many may be crop marks. If you look at
a dense site in Britian you will see many crop marks
identifying buried earthworks, etc. Also, many times the
difference in soil type along the earthworks or slight
elevation differences will cause the grain to grow higher,
sometimes in positive or negative crop marks. When heavy
winds some, this higher grain is knocked down-this is a well
known and studied phenomenon. Of course, this by no means
explains everything, but may explain some.
Steve
There is 1 Reply.
#: 191229 S10/Paranormal Issues
09-Nov-91 07:36:19
Sb: #190998-Crop Circles
Fm: Robert Sabaroff 71251,2445
To: Stephen Ryland 72345,366
Stephen, I wanted to acknowledge your thoughts about the
effects of buried earthworks, re (some) crop circle events.
As a result I scanned the available photographs, and see a
few which may be just that. I suspect that when this is
relatively sorted out, some archaeologists will be applying
for excavation grants on a few of them. Only a few,
however.
The formations which triggered the SDI connection, however,
all formed at night, with sharp outlines, relatively
quickly, in the absence of wind, and clearly placed with
precision within the fields. No incursions into adjoining
roads, under fences, or anything like that.
Your thoughts may well account for some, however. (Where's
that grant application manual I had lying around here...)
Bob
#: 191143 S10/Paranormal Issues
09-Nov-91 01:28:50
Sb: #189964-Crop Circles
Fm: Terry Rodemerk 76357,405
To: Robert Sabaroff 71251,2445
Hi Bob,
Yes, CIRCLE.TXT is the file I was referring to. I
found it very interesting and informative. I don't really
know what to make of the circles and have been trying to
keep an open mind on them. The SDI angle is as good an
explanation for some of the circles as I have read yet. I
have always felt that there is more capability to SDI than
the government wants us to think about. The umbrella against
nuke warheads was just a way for the government to get the
funding it needed (shades of the Willie Horton scare
tactics). I have not read the CIRCIS.TXT file yet. Is it in
the Paranormal library also? I was unaware that anyone else
on CIS was talking about the circles until I read the
CIRCLE.TXT file. Thanks for uploading it. Have you pulled
together the circles threads from this forum yet (is that
what CIRCIS.TXT is?)? If not, I could go back over my
message files and pull together what I have for you.
BTW, I have no problem with the size of the files, but
you might want to break them down to 60-70K parts. A lot of
people can't work with files that big for one reason or
another.
Terry
#: 191144 S10/Paranormal Issues
09-Nov-91 01:29:04
Sb: #190158-Crop Circles
Fm: Terry Rodemerk 76357,405
To: Terry Ecker 71207,1165
Terry,
Congrats on your "graduation". Glad to hear your doing
better by the day. It was nice of Anne to set the treader up
the way she did. A perscription pool!! No wonder my
insurance rates are going up . Hope the weather gets
better so that you can use it again before next spring.
Please tell Rex and Carol that I think they have done
an excellent research job on Gulf Breeze and that I hope
they can reach a understanding with Bruce M that will be
satisfactory to both. When you get that copy of
"Soldier of Fortune" please let me know the issue, as I
would like to read it.
Yes, Chorost's ideas about the megaliths and crop marks
was also a good point. I had a 3x5 foot crop rectangle in my
backyard a couple of years ago. Couldn't figure out what
caused it till I dug down about a foot and found a old
septic tank. It must have been put in back in the late 50's
when this end of town was just that, the end of town :).
I think what we are going to find out about the circles
is that they are a combination of many different causes.
Crop marks, hoaxes, weather and natural phenomena, a couple
of UFO's, possibly SDI testing and who knows what else. What
really amazes me is that so much is happening in such a
small area, relatively speaking.
Keep getting healthy,
Terry
#: 191206 S10/Paranormal Issues
09-Nov-91 06:21:31
Sb: #191143-#Crop Circles
Fm: Robert Sabaroff 71251,2445
To: Terry Rodemerk 76357,405
Hi back, Terry. Actually both Terrys'.
I was very pleased at your reaction to CIRCLE.TXT. With the
history of the megalith's, Ley lines, et al - the site
really was made to order. I found the comments about
delayed reactions based on prior sites to be very evocative,
and I would include a few in particular as among "most of
the above." The reason I narrow it to a few is the
precision with which some of the most spectacular align with
current furrows, and include a directional reference
(Barbury is a good example) to true north. Also among the
more recent ones is a copy of an Anasazi (11th century
Arizona) petroglyph. The impression was that somebody made
a mistake or was kibbitzing. Surreal...
The CIRCLE.TXT unfortunately had to be kept intact, since it
had an internal continuity which we (the participants)
agreed needed to be preserved, as the debate left many with
more flexible attitudes than those with which they began.
It was happening on a BBS of professional writers, and the
development of attitudes and the continuity of the thread
seemed seamless. CIRCLE.TXT, as long as it is, astonished us
by the number of downloads it did receive, from the
ISSUES/PARANORMAL Lib. 10 (46, the last time I looked) and
more from SPACE and ASTRONOMY Libraries 17 (New Uploads),
both of which accepted it. CIRCIS.TXT is the compiled
CompuServe thread which ensued, and CIRCS2.TXT is it's
continuation. Both are also in SPACE and ASTRONOMY
Libraries 17. CIRCS2.TXT is the shortest, as we are
painfully aware of the expense of downloading long files.
We knew this theory was (publicly) non-existent elsewhere,
and that it ought to made accessible on a global basis.
Interestingly, the UKFORUM declined it, and the thread there
ended with a lot of empty headers. Hmm. As it turned out,
many of the major contributors were in the UK, having
obtained it from the other libraries.
[More]
There is 1 Reply.
#: 191207 S10/Paranormal Issues
09-Nov-91 06:21:46
Sb: #191206-Crop Circles
Fm: Robert Sabaroff 71251,2445
To: Robert Sabaroff 71251,2445 (X)
[Continued]
I only wish I could have included private correspondence I
received from the UK. Some of it was from researchers at
the sites, who were very generous in sending (often at hefty
postal rates) surveys of the best sites, and a sense of the
scene in general. Even those who favored more paranormal
scenarios than "Earth Wars" were very forthcoming. A
collective denial seems to have set in in the UK among the
majority, which is understandable. It can't be easy to deal
with the idea that a potential Manhattan project of the 21st
Century is entering puberty overhead.
For the record, as messages in the files attest, I am not a
UFO debunker. Quite the contrary. But I do see the UFO
aspect as helping to confound the rules of evidence, by
design. I do know that the U.S. Military can simulate a UFO
with specially designed helicopters - made for that purpose
- when they need to do an on-site visit under observation.
Also, as a pilot, though I haven't seen one, I have heard
commercial air traffic in which pilots called ground
facilities for radar verifications of visual sightings, and
always got them. There would follow a discussion whether to
bother with the hassle of a report. There was an eery sense
of "routineness" every one of the four or five times I heard
such dialogues. The most interesting one I overheard
involved a radar operator at ATC say, "your E.T. just made a
right turn at mach 10..." The pilot said, "I just lost
visual contact." The response from radar... "well, we still
have it."
If the SDI scenario can be laid to rest, and we tried very
hard to shoot it down, only to have each attempt give it new
life... we can scientifically move on to more hypotheses.
Nobody would rest more easy than would I.
Bob
#: 191228 S10/Paranormal Issues
09-Nov-91 07:36:12
Sb: Crop circles
Fm: Robert Sabaroff 71251,2445
To: Terry Rodemerk 76357,405
Terry, just a compulsive addendum to answer a question you
asked that I didn't answer about the thread files.
CIRCIS.TXT and CIRCS2.TXT make a valiant effort to compile a
thread which had a problem finding a home. Some of it is
here, but much/most of it migrated to
SPACE/Extraterrestrials (S7), and then, when it started to
get attention from scientists - an exposure and devil's
advocacy which was much desired - it continued on
ASTRO/Satellite Observing (S3). If anybody knows of any
traffic elsewhere, I missed it and would appreciate
directions.
BTW, CIRCIS.TXT and CIRCS2.TXT are not in Lib. 10, here,
just in SPACE and ASTRO libs. 17.
Bob
y#: 191405 S10/Paranormal Issues
09-Nov-91 16:29:34
Sb: #191207-Crop Circles
Fm: michael houdeshell 70004,1044
To: Robert Sabaroff 71251,2445
In June 1988 I was visiting a college friend (who had, like
me, started out as a physics major; he went into
programming, I into, uh, English) and his girlfriend in
Huntsville. A former high-level mil-industrial complex R&D
manager (a promoted engineer) delivered an address at the
Huntsville campus of U of 'Bama (or 'Bama State?--I sense
one of the circulating skeptics is gonna be down my throat
in a second, and am too tired, frankly, to care right now)
in which he outlined his reasons for believing that SDI,
from its inception, has been a project devoted to developing
an _offensive_ space-based weapons system. The guy had
impressive credentials; the talk was sanctioned by the
school. I didn't write them all down. Sorry. Proves they
were either bogus or I made them up to justify my (soon to
be asserted) true-believer's paranoiac weltanschauung. I
found his argument quite cogent, quite credible, and in line
with stuff I knew from some people I interned with while a
physics major. There is, of course, the argument from
practicality and feasibility: it's a hell of a lot easier to
aim something at the ground and scorch away than to detect
and track a ballistic missile and/or its warheads, determine
if it is a decoy, and deliver, over a significant span, with
lots of aggressive countermeasures coming at you, a narrow
stream of energy. Think about it for a second. If you had a
nuke-pumped multi-rod gamma laser cruising around, would you
rather fix all the rods on moving targets, using huge
amounts of data fed via other satellites (probably
themselves under attack: the enemy doesn't just sit there,
and satellite-killing is easier than this elaborate scheme),
or would you rather take leisurely aim at several spots of
terra firma, and let the other guy know you had the capacity
to play Spaceman Sherman?
#: 191670 S10/Paranormal Issues
10-Nov-91 00:21:18
Sb: #191405-#Crop Circles
Fm: Robert Sabaroff 71251,2445
To: michael houdeshell 70004,1044
It's good to meet you, Michael. First, may I have
permission to rip off, "Proves they were either bogus or I
made them up to justify my (soon to be asserted) true-
believer's paranoiac weltanschauung?" I can really use that
on the WGA BBS. That made my day, on a number of levels.
Thank you. Our resident skeptics at the WGA invoke inverse
equivalents on a regular basis, and it's a perfect pre-
emption of at least twelve knee-kerk howls per thread
initiation. I really loved it. I'll even give you credit
if you want. Upper or lower case on the name? Starting in
pre-med, as I did, I understand "(uh, English)," too. With
an M.D. mother and a space scientist father there was
nothing for it but to be a Journalism major. Except for a
few later relapses into Think Tank work, I made my escape. I
always loved science and history, and I grew up in an
environment which taught me that objectivity requires a
certain courage when its result raises questions about
presumed fundementals. The enemy of communication, or even
the re-asking of presumably fundamental questions, is often
taken as a direct threat to the security base of the
Discipline under challenge. There is another, of which you
also seem free. Collective denial - the invisibility, by
even the most "educated," astute, intelligent, perceptive,
honorable, well-meaning people, of that which "is too bad to
be true." A scan of the last thirty years of our history,
not to mention a backward projection through millenia of
academic self-contradiction, is a major study in itself.
Taking that tack, I knew going into this thread, that
collective denial would be the major headwind, but that the
burden of communication would be on me, and those who shared
my desire to get the "Earth Wars" option into the public
conversation for the common good. Please excuse this
personal 'dump,' but I guess I want the skeptics to know
that they, too, have my respect, and they *should* challenge
what doesn't work for them, even if the reason is that it
contradicts their education. That's real science.
[More]
There is 1 Reply.
#: 191671 S10/Paranormal Issues
10-Nov-91 00:21:34
Sb: #191670-Crop Circles
Fm: Robert Sabaroff 71251,2445
To: Robert Sabaroff 71251,2445 (X)
[Continued]
To return to the thread (with apologies to all for the on-
line charges incurred downloading this monster even with
Tapcis), I was thrilled to see you say out loud the stuff
about nuke-pumped multi-rod gamma lasers. You went straight
to the heart of what the "/other" implies in
laser/maser/other. If my perception of events is correct,
the current state of the art (may da Vinci forgive the
term), may or may not have had time to move beyond what it
is - the prototype testing of scaled down versions of a
technology that doesn't even have a name yet. In the course
of the thread (I don't know how much of the three files so
far uploaded you've read) but a concession was made on one
of the non-paranormal forums that coherent gamma emission
was "theoretically possible," but nobody'd yet figured how
to do it, as though anybody who knew for sure would take the
self-compromising risk of saying so. That requires a lot of
between-the-line reading. One never can be sure if one is
being baited for the revelation of misbegotten sources, is
being discretely "fed" by friends, or is making people
nervous and pitfalls are being dug. Your message was very
welcome indeed.
Re Spaceman Sherman, from recent world developments I would
deduce that the "other guys" (whoever "they" are today) are
getting quite a demonstration that a new definition of
"conventional weapon" has made it to next year's lexicon,
and it confronts them with a wider technological gap than
anyone can afford the time or resources to pre-empt.
Inverting the acronym, the truly immense funding of SDI in
the face of public discreditation, and the importance placed
on its cessation by the Eastern bloc when it first went
"public" strongly suggest that its true purpose (if I'm
right) was suspected, if not known. Maybe it's my own
residual denial at work, but this could be good news or bad
news. It depends who's in control. That's why I find it so
important that people look at this very hard.
Bob
#: 191637 S10/Paranormal Issues
09-Nov-91 22:36:13
Sb: #190998-#Crop Circles
Fm: Malcolm O'Brien 76703,4243
To: Stephen Ryland 72345,366
Steve,
-> this by no means explains everything
That's for sure! Soil and elevation differences are never so
precisely geometric. Nor, I suspect, do windswept crops
exhibit the changes that are consistent with microwave
exposure.
Malcolm
There is 1 Reply.
#: 191652 S10/Paranormal Issues
09-Nov-91 22:48:48
Sb: #191637-Crop Circles
Fm: Michael McDowell 76207,1247
To: Malcolm O'Brien 76703,4243
You're correct. Roman remains, medieval remains, remains of
much more recent times can sometimes be observed from the
air as outlines that are darker or lighter than the
surrounding cover. But these are principally due to a lack
of root space below the surface. A buried wall of a Roman
bath does not obey modern boundary lines; it does not
arrange to exhibit its pattern above quite suddenly and
distinctly after (what must be) years of quietude. The
individual plants that make up crop circles are not shorter
than their neighbors, nor a more intensive gree color --
they are only bent in such a way to form regular (more or
less) figures with irregular (more or less) appendages.
#: 191686 S10/Paranormal Issues
10-Nov-91 01:25:40
Sb: #191228-Crop circles
Fm: Terry Rodemerk 76357,405
To: Robert Sabaroff 71251,2445 (X)
Bob,
As soon as I get time I'm going to go on over to the
Space forum and download those files. I am looking forward
to reading them. As I said to Terry E., I think that we are
going to find that there are a lot of different causes of
the circles. Then the trick is going to be to try and tell
which causes go with which circles. What a jigsaw puzzle!
One question, could you go into more detail about the
Helicopters that can masquerade as UFO's. This sounds very
interesting.
Terry
#: 191753 S10/Paranormal Issues
10-Nov-91 06:34:19
Sb: #191686-Crop circles
Fm: anders heerfordt 100016,3142
To: Terry Rodemerk 76357,405
It could be the other way around, UFOs masquerading as
helicopters. Certainly in the cattle-mutilation cases, there
have been many sightings of helicopters that could not be
identified, and which behaved in a strange manner, such as
not generating sound. But I didnt read the whole thread, so
my comment may be misplaced.
#: 191778 S10/Paranormal Issues
10-Nov-91 07:19:56
Sb: #191686-#Crop circles
Fm: Robert Sabaroff 71251,2445
To: Terry Rodemerk 76357,405
Terry, about UFO simulations; I reiterate that I'm not a
debunker of UFO's, and I hope everyone reading this saw my
prior narrative to that effect. There are varying versions
about whether the helicopter is NSA, CIA, or Military
proprietary. Most guesses attribute it to the CIA. I
learned of it from a credible, unclassified source, who
happened to stumble on a demonstration of it. I raise it
here, because what was described to me very closely fits
those UFO sightings associated with certain crop circle
events at which UFO activity was reported.
There is no conscious breach of the National Security Act in
the following. It is said to have been designed for "overt
covert" operations of a variety of sorts. It was described
as having a light-absorbing exterior - dull black. The
powerplant is heavily muffled, and a sound emitter (high
pitched) blanks the throb of high rotor-pitch (blade angle
of attack, not tone) operation. On the rotor tips are
programable strobes which can be synched to RPM to give the
illusion of windows. It is heavily overpowered to permit a
relatively silent, low RPM hover, and may have a tripod-type
landing gear designed to give the classic UFO footprint. It
may also have a mist emitter (I realize this sounds far
fetched, but everything seems to be, lately) which can be
"painted" by programmed lasers in the same fashion that rock
concert light shows operate. The effect of the rotor wash on
the mist would be irrelevant to the image painted by the
lasers. And before everybody freaks out...
[More]
There is 1 Reply.
#: 191779 S10/Paranormal Issues
10-Nov-91 07:20:09
Sb: #191778-Crop circles
Fm: Robert Sabaroff 71251,2445
To: Robert Sabaroff 71251,2445 (X)
[Continued]
I was fortunate enough to have tickets to the closing of the
'84 Olympics, here in L.A. The most memorable single
special effect that David Wolper came up with was a UFO
simulation which is still talked about, in a town quite
jaded about such things. A UFO appeared in the stadium,
took off, and went up up and away. Had I seen it from a
country road, or anywhere else, nothing could have convinced
me it wasn't real. It, too, used a laser painted image on a
special surface. The effect was so compelling and dramatic,
as any UFO event must be, that a stadium full of people were
completely unaware that it was on the end of a wire,
connected to a hovering helicopter - also black - very close
by. I only recently found out how it was done.
I don't know if you saw it or not, but on a recent episode
of "Unexplained Mysteries," hosted by Robert Stack, a very
unusual "UFO revelation" was offered. It was about
sightings at a U.S. air base in southern England in the very
early '80's. What made this piece highly irregular was that
it included eyewitness accounts of active reservists and
*still active* Air Force personnel. This, as far as I know,
was unprecedented. The artists' renditions of what they saw
fit the helicopter simulation perfectly - down to the tripod
landing indents, the dimensions, the strobe-like "windows."
It also included descriptions of effects exactly like the
"plasma vortex" and ball lightning effects described by
Meaden, and Ohtsuki, the Japanese researcher.
(Disinformation by association?) I had the overall
impression that the public was being given UFO's to chew on,
for the sake of increasing the diversion. Too many common
elements, too closely timed to publicized inquiries - in
southern England, said to have occured at the time when the
circles were first being noticed. Circles not mentioned.
Bob
#: 192222 S10/Paranormal Issues
10-Nov-91 21:58:11
Sb: #191779-Crop circles
Fm: Terry Rodemerk 76357,405
To: Robert Sabaroff 71251,2445
Bob,
Thanks for the info about the UFO simulating
helicopters. They sound like enhanced verisons of the
standard black stealth helicopters that the government uses
for surveillance work.
I don't think that anybody here thinks of you as a
debunker. You contribute thoughts and ideas to the
discussion and that is what it is all about. There is
definitely *something* going on and as you said to Mike H.,
people had better start taking a good hard look at what it
might be. Time is running out and those with their heads in
the sand are going to be in for an AWFULLY rude awakening.
Terry
#: 192057 S10/Paranormal Issues
10-Nov-91 17:49:19
Sb: #191405-Crop Circles
Fm: Erik Albrektson 70312,3576
To: michael houdeshell 70004,1044
>>and let the other guy know you had the capacity to play
Spaceman Sherman?<<
Michael, if the crop circles are really intended to "send a
message" to some other country, the sender must presume the
target audience is uncannily perceptive. Excuse my
skepticism but, anyone who can disguise a message with this
degreee of subtlety should have no trouble deciphering all
those diabolical messages that become apparent when rock
music is played in reverse!
I agree with the premise of this thread that SDI activity is
an intriguing possible explanation for crop circle activity
and definitely deserves further inquiry. However, sending
messages to other world powers (or whoever) through crop
circles is a bit of a stretch. It flies in the face of the
underlying theory which is that Wiltshire was selected as a
testing ground in order to camoflauge the activity.
#: 192166 S10/Paranormal Issues
10-Nov-91 20:31:15
Sb: #191143-Crop Circles
Fm: Malcolm O'Brien 76703,4243
To: Terry Rodemerk 76357,405 (X)
Terry,
Who the heck IS Willie Horton?! I've seen the name
repeatedly in the last week or so and have no idea what/who
people are talking about!
Malcolm
#: 192093 S10/Paranormal Issues
10-Nov-91 19:02:43
Sb: #191637-Crop Circles
Fm: Stephen Ryland 72345,366
To: Malcolm O'Brien 76703,4243 (X)
Just another possibility for some of the more simple
circles; but it surely sounds like you have your mind made
up. Personally I have not subjected large amounts of
cropland to intense microwave energy, so I cannot determine
if the grain deformation is consistent or not-we have
subjected oil shale to such energy.
Steve
#: 192269 S10/Paranormal Issues
10-Nov-91 23:31:38
Sb: #192166-Crop Circles
Fm: Terry Rodemerk 76357,405
To: Malcolm O'Brien 76703,4243
Hi Malcolm,
Willie Horton is the black gent who raped a woman
while he was out of prison on work release up in
Massachusetts in the mid 80's. George Bush used the crime to
beat Mike Dukakius up in the 88 election. George
played on white fear of mass release of black criminals if
Dukakius was elected, even though Dukakius had nothing to do
with the release of Horton, to get votes.
To me the SDI umbrella to protect little childern from nuke
attack was the same thing. The Reagan people played on the
fears of nuclear war (remember the crayon drawings of the
rainbow shield protecting little Jimmy and mom and dad with
little Jimmy's voiceover) in order to get massive funding
for SDI.
You can scare some of the people some of the time, and
you can scare some of the people all of the time, but if you
can scare most of the people once in a while you can get
anything you want from them and they will never know just
what it was they gave you ;)
Terry
#: 192275 S10/Paranormal Issues
10-Nov-91 23:57:42
Sb: #192057-Crop Circles
Fm: Robert Sabaroff 71251,2445
To: Erik Albrektson 70312,3576
Erik, I need to clear up a lingering misinterpretration, and
I take full responsibility for not having communicated it
well. I never meant to simplistically imply that the crop
events were themselves the "signals." I believe Intelligence
exchanges and closed door "FYI briefings" communicated much
more directly what was taking place, all quite thoroughly
modulated by the geopolitical weather, starting quite some
time ago. What the crop formations secondarily happen to
also do is furnish an ongoing demonstration of the level of
R & D. I don't for a moment believe they are anything other
than R & D artifacts, cleverly placed. *The crop events are
not themselves the signals.*
The only reason I can think of for the intensely negative
Soviet reaction to the initiation of the SDI program is that
they knew its true nature from the beginning, as did the
Congressional committees which continued its heavy funding.
We must remember that at the beginning, the players were
Reagan (literally, with script), Ms. Thatcher, and a very
different Eastern Bloc under Brezhnev. Along came Gorbachev,
and SDI was no longer a SALT deal breaker. It had its up
sides for the futures of several countries.
According to media reports here, there is a large
procurement team now in Russia negotiating for the sale and
exchange of hardware and R & D - much of it openly stated as
SDI-related material. The geopolitical sidebars which
reinforce the pattern when run in slow motion parallel to
the crop event calendar, open a subject far too large for
this or any other BBS forum. If and when what I and others
tend to believe is ultimately confirmed, that story will be
fodder for the historians of this very strange period.
First, however, more of the "numbers" in the official
portrait of Bush's "New Order" remain blank. Wiltshire, and
soon Japan, are two numbers not yet painted in. -Bob-
#: 192293 S10/Paranormal Issues
11-Nov-91 04:11:56
Sb: #191405-Crop Circles
Fm: Phillip Schuman 76050,55
To: michael houdeshell 70004,1044
Michael: An overtly offensive mission for SDI was certainly
part of the research (nuclear powered x-ray lasers were
shown fairly early on to have little defensive value, but
research continued apace anyway), but I'm not sure that it
was the preponderant rationale, or that defensive purposes
were not heavily involved as well. The point of the whole
thing is really that even the defensive side had an
offensive aspect, in that it could make a first-strike more
thinkable. No first strike foreseeably could prevent some
sizable fraction of missed, launched on warning, or mobile
launched missiles from being sent in a return salvo, and
even 10 hits on major cities would be an unparalleled social
catastrophe. But if the fractionally sized return salvo
could be knocked down (a task made immensely easier by
downscaling the number of targets by, say, 90%), then it
became thinkable, and the possibility of meaningful nuclear
superiority, and all those war gaming counterforce strike
scenarios, would become operational. This was well
understood, and explicitly forbidden by the ABM treaty,
which limited such defensive attempts to the allowed one or
two systems. A usable and meaningful nuclear superiority was
the Holy Grail of the defense establishment, and nothing
short of SDI would regain it, after the effect of MIRVing
the Soviet heavy launchers. But the offensive side of this
should be given greater attention, since it was specifically
denied in the propaganda treatment designed for its
justification. ...phil
#: 192474 S10/Paranormal Issues
11-Nov-91 10:13:02
Sb: #191671-#Crop Circles
Fm: michael houdeshell 70004,1044
To: Robert Sabaroff 71251,2445
They sure as hell decided to drop out of the weapons race,
didn't they?
I find it curious, and at times disturbing, that the US and
the UN keep swapping positions of authority. Turns out,
according to Newsweek, that the UN team cornered by the
Iraqis _did_ send the data directly to US intelligence. We
also supplied sat data to the UN inspection teams. Now, I'm
no apologist for the Iraqis, but I sorta liked the old days
when the US griped about funding the UN which always voted
against it. Things are real cozy now, and George keeps
mumbling about the New World Order, whatever that means. I'm
not one of those ravers against dread One World Government,
but, hey: we elected the guy to defend, protect etc the US.
Maybe I just think the unexamined privileging, in realms as
diverse as psychology and geopolitics, of unity over
diversity and plurality ought to be examined. Scares me to
think every little state that precipitates out of the once
monolithic Soviet empire might get a bundle of nukes, but
isn't it weird when the Soviets are stopping short only of
begging us to take 'em off their hands? And Cheney, in his
artfully elliptical way, keeps hinting we'd like to.
Isn't there a lag of several hundred years before one gets
the straight historic scoop on a culture? In America, we
suppose that the infoglut implies a correct version of
received current history. I guess the point would be to
figure out how to live until 2400, and get a good dark
chuckle looking back
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