From Newsgroup: alt.tv.star-trek.tos   
   From Address: not@chance.dude   
   Subject: Re: Star Trek 2009, I saw it this week (spoilers if you haven't   
   seenit yet)   
      
   Wouter Valentijn wrote:   
   > Wickeddoll wrote:   
   >> Wouter Valentijn wrote:   
   >>> Mind you, I already saw several trailers and read dozens of   
   >>> spoilers. It wasn't that new to me. :-)   
   >> Glad to see ya posting again, cutie!   
   >    
   > Ah, shucks, here I go with the blushing again! :-)   
      
   Well you *are* cute!   
   >    
   >>> Some assumptions I made were wrong. I thought there would be only   
   >>> one age for Nero whilst another poster with whom I had a discussion   
   >>> about this said there were decades between. He was obviously right.   
   >>> Advance Scout?  Those twelve hundred quatloos are transferred!   
   >> I have no idea WTF you're talking about - but that's okay, since the   
   >> movie will be in my mailbox next week, from Amazon.   
   >    
   > Let me see if I can dig up that post.   
   >    
   > http://groups.google.com/group/alt.tv.star-trek.tos/msg/0312d8   
   980dddeb7?hl=nl   
      
   Um... OK :-D   
   >    
   > BTW, I see that I was right about the mind meld. :-)   
      
   Showoff   
   >    
   >>> I consider this movie to be a totally alternate timeline, only a few   
   >>> levels more serious than 'In the Pirkering'.   
   >>> When did this timeline start to splice of? I think even before Nero   
   >>> showed up.   
   >> I think before Kirk and co. got halfway through the Academy.   
   >    
   > Nero showed up (in the past) before Kirk & co. got half way through the   
   > Academy, so yeah. :-)   
   > George Kirk died before his time. In the prime line he lived to see his son   
   > become captain.   
      
   I barely remember anything about Kirk's dad from TOS.  I can't even tell    
   you if I heard about him in any of the eps.  Was he mentioned?   
   >    
   >>> If you look at the scenes involving the Kelvin you see a vessel you   
   >>> would not think possible for that time period. Outwardly it is   
   >>> reminiscent of the classic (non-canon) destroyer / scout   
   >>> configuration of the Starfleet Tech manual of the '70's. But it   
   >>> seems a great deal bigger and more modern too. It had 800 people or   
   >>> more on board and scores of shuttlecraft! And what was a pregnant   
   >>> woman doing on board? Passenger? Was there an early experiment   
   >>> involving family on board starships before the days of Picard?   
   >> It was dumb enough with Voyager, so I was rather dismayed to see that   
   >> again.   
   >>> If you think about altering the timeline of Kirk & Co.  it   
   >>> automatically involves changing everything they touched, not only in   
   >>> their regular time frame, but also in the times they will visit   
   >>> outside, in the past (or maybe not now in this case). The   
   >>> changes, how small or great they are, could start from the ice age of   
   >>> Sarpeidon to the mid '80's of the twentieth century.   
   >>> So, that might be a secondary effect of a timeline change from the   
   >>> moment the Narada entered the past, thus also effecting everything   
   >>> up to and including the construction of the Kelvin.   
   >>> It could be a cascade of changes. A ripple effect directly into the   
   >>> relative future, the natural way time flows, and indirectly the past   
   >>> because of the loops made by effected time travelers.   
   >> I like the way you think, kid.   
   >    
   > Thank you kindly!   
      
   :-D   
   >    
   >>> The Narada... Those miners seemed to be part of a different culture   
   >>> than the Romulans we know about thus far. Which can be explained by   
   >>> the fact that most of those had been either in the military or in   
   >>> politics.   
   >> Don't group the military with politicians! It's sacrilege! ;-)   
   >    
   > Sorry! ;-)   
      
   :-)   
   >    
   >>> Nero himself was total nut case. He could have used a couple of   
   >>> lessons from Spock when he was younger.   
   >> I have to wonder how a fruit loop like him managed to get so many   
   >> followers.  Wait - that happens with politicians; nevermind.   
   >>   
   >>> The moment he realized he was in the past he might have chosen to   
   >>> head for Romulus and/or slingshot back into the future in order to   
   >>> use the red matter sooner! Romulus would have been saved and he   
   >>> would not need to seek revenge. But then again, I doubt logic was   
   >>> his strong suit.   
   >> I doubt knowing what day it is would be his strong suit.   
   >    
   > Indeed. He had to ask his hostage the stardate.   
   > BTW... Speaking of stardates... Here they used actual years as the base for   
   > stardates. Another departure from the prime line.   
      
   A welcome one for me - I never could understand those gawddamn stardates!   
   >    
   >>> The red matter was a curious find for this movie. We know Romulan   
   >>> Warbirds are powered by a singularity but I understand this Red   
   >>> Matter has a different origin. I did half and half expect Sidney   
   >>> Bristow to show up, stopping Nero. :-)   
   >> Heh, I didn't even catch that part - but I'll watch really carefully   
   >> when my DVD arrives.   
   >    
   > I think the red blob FX was very similar to what could be seen in 'Alias'.   
      
   I boycotted Alias because it was a total ripoff of "La Femme Nikita" -    
   they even stole a scene from LFN for the Alias pilot, that had been in    
   the LFN pilot!  At least they were up front with their theft.   
   >    
   >>> The heroes. Well, vehicular wise this was a very different Kirk. Not   
   >>> surprising since the focal point of the changes was his life. The   
   >>> same goes for most of the characters. Most close to the originals   
   >>> were Quinto as Spock (mostly because of his looks) and Urban as   
   >>> McCoy (almost too good a match). Really totally different were   
   >>> Chekov and Scott. The latter being borderline ADHD I think. And what   
   >>> was that short angry alien doing there? He reminded me of Zathras a   
   >>> bit.   
   >> Not his fault, but I know Urban too well from Xena, so I kept   
   >> expecting him to be called "Caesar" LOL.  As for his take on Bones, I   
   >> thought he   
   >> overdid it a little, but was *way* better than Trinnear's Bones-esque   
   >> take on Enterprise.  I wish they'd done much more with the little   
   >> alien guy.  I thought Chekov (a real Russian, no less) was hilarious.   
   >    
   > I do remember seeing Caesar on Xena, but for a million years I would not   
   > recognize Caesar in Bones.   
      
   hehehe - I kept seeing that annoying "Sylar" from "Heroes" every time    
   Quinto opened his mouth.  He needs to develop a separate voice for    
   Spock, that greatly differs from Sylar, IMO.  Everything else in his    
   performance was perfect, though; even the body language.   
   >    
   >    
   >>> Taking a few steps back, taking into account this is a totally   
   >>> alternate universe, I have some mixed feelings about the way the   
   >>> film was made. The first half seemed too loose and fast. Way too   
   >>> MTV. Maybe because it is aimed at a younger age group than mine. The   
   >>> second part of the movie, from Kirk's stay on that other Delta Vega   
   >>> was the better half.   
   >> Younger age group than yours?!  We talking Dora The Explorer? Spongebob   
   >> Squarepants?   
   >    
   > I have heard vaguely of Spongebob, and saw that image in toy store windows.   
   > Those other names don't ring a bell.   
   > I was born in 1966.   
   >    
      
   Spongebob Squarepants is the name of that image you saw.  Dora The    
   Explorer is a pre-school level cartoon show.  In other words, the    
   audiences for those shows are very young, which would be the next level    
   down, IMO. :-D   
      
   >    
   >>> As a whole it can be seen as a 'Collage Homage' to the classic   
   >>> series, mixing images and sound bites from Treks past into a story   
   >>> that is a bit shaky.   
   >> Which I thought was cool.   
   >>   
   >>> I would have made two or three movies from that first half or so (up   
   >>> until the Vulcan distress call) and use those to flesh out Kirk's   
   >>> life in a more in depth manner.   
   >> Now, I *did not* like what they did with Vulcan.  Just didn't mesh.   
   >    
   > I didn't like that either.   
      
   I'd hate for them to hit a reset button to bring Amanda back, but    
   ditching her was a mistake.   
   >    
   >>> But I guess such a thing will never happen because that wouldn't be   
   >>> fast or MTV enough.   
   >> *shrug*   
   >>   
   >>> Speaking of MTV, I think it was funny to hear 'The Beasty Boys'. As   
   >>> being an Abrams product I would expect to hear 'Drive Shaft'. :-)   
   >>> This however was a better choice.   
   >> I don't know Beastie Boys' stuff, so I didn't catch that.   
   >    
   > The song was 'Sabotage'. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkw0e0Jcn9A   
   > They made the video as if it was the opening credits of a cop show.   
   > Young Kid Kirk played it on his audio system when he drove that car over the    
   > edge.   
   >    
   Hubby's into them - just not for me.   
   >    
   > But they are best known for: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NdAUnnU9Ac ;-)   
   >    
   >    
   >    
   >>> Bottom line: Do I regret getting this DVD (2 disc edition)? Nope! :-)   
   >>> Will it replace the originals? Never!   
   >> Of course not - and only those who are determined to hate it will   
   >> think it even *tries* to replace TOS.   
   >    
   > It really can't .   
      
   Nothing can; nor should.   
   >    
   >>> It starts as this sloppy homage to Trek's past and at the end it   
   >>> finishes relatively well.   
   >> Sounds like you enjoyed it a lot less than I did, but I think you're   
   >> fair in your assessments.   
   >    
   > I didn't hate it. :-)   
      
   hehehe - guess it could be worse.   
   >    
   >>> Relatively because they were not able to save Amanda and Vulcan. But   
   >>> again since I consider those not to be 'our' Amanda and Vulcan, the   
   >>> loss isn't felt that strong.   
   >>>   
   >>>   
   >> Yeah, losing Amanda was a big mistake, IMO - just wasn't any real   
   >> point to it.  We know damned well Spock isn't going to implode (at least   
   >> not   
   >> publicly) so the dramatic effect was wanting.  Sarek reacted with more   
   >> emotion than Spock, which *was* interesting, but not worth losing the   
   >> character of Amanda.   
   >    
   > It was used mostly as a story device to make Spock go crazy after being   
   > provoked by Kirk.   
   > That in itself was a nod to several episodes of TOS.   
   >    
   >    
      
   Yeah, but she could have been missing; his anxiety of wondering about    
   her could have had the same effect.   
      
   Natalie   
   --    
   "Wicked little doll, you have no soul"   
   (David Byrne, 1997)   
   http://www.supernaturalusa.net   
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