From Newsgroup: alt.tv.star-trek.tos   
   From Address: liam@valentijn.nu   
   Subject: Re: Star Trek 2009, I saw it this week (spoilers if you haven't seen   
   it yet)   
      
   Wickeddoll wrote:   
   > Wouter Valentijn wrote:   
   >> Mind you, I already saw several trailers and read dozens of   
   >> spoilers. It wasn't that new to me. :-)   
   >   
   > Glad to see ya posting again, cutie!   
      
   Ah, shucks, here I go with the blushing again! :-)   
      
   >   
   >> Some assumptions I made were wrong. I thought there would be only   
   >> one age for Nero whilst another poster with whom I had a discussion   
   >> about this said there were decades between. He was obviously right.   
   >> Advance Scout?  Those twelve hundred quatloos are transferred!   
   >   
   > I have no idea WTF you're talking about - but that's okay, since the   
   > movie will be in my mailbox next week, from Amazon.   
      
   Let me see if I can dig up that post.   
      
   http://groups.google.com/group/alt.tv.star-trek.tos/msg/0312d85980dddeb7?hl=nl   
      
   BTW, I see that I was right about the mind meld. :-)   
      
   >>   
   >> I consider this movie to be a totally alternate timeline, only a few   
   >> levels more serious than 'In the Pirkering'.   
   >> When did this timeline start to splice of? I think even before Nero   
   >> showed up.   
   >   
   > I think before Kirk and co. got halfway through the Academy.   
      
   Nero showed up (in the past) before Kirk & co. got half way through the   
   Academy, so yeah. :-)   
   George Kirk died before his time. In the prime line he lived to see his son   
   become captain.   
      
   >>   
   >> If you look at the scenes involving the Kelvin you see a vessel you   
   >> would not think possible for that time period. Outwardly it is   
   >> reminiscent of the classic (non-canon) destroyer / scout   
   >> configuration of the Starfleet Tech manual of the '70's. But it   
   >> seems a great deal bigger and more modern too. It had 800 people or   
   >> more on board and scores of shuttlecraft! And what was a pregnant   
   >> woman doing on board? Passenger? Was there an early experiment   
   >> involving family on board starships before the days of Picard?   
   >   
   > It was dumb enough with Voyager, so I was rather dismayed to see that   
   > again.   
   >>   
   >> If you think about altering the timeline of Kirk & Co.  it   
   >> automatically involves changing everything they touched, not only in   
   >> their regular time frame, but also in the times they will visit   
   >> outside, in the past (or maybe not now in this case). The   
   >> changes, how small or great they are, could start from the ice age of   
   >> Sarpeidon to the mid '80's of the twentieth century.   
   >> So, that might be a secondary effect of a timeline change from the   
   >> moment the Narada entered the past, thus also effecting everything   
   >> up to and including the construction of the Kelvin.   
   >> It could be a cascade of changes. A ripple effect directly into the   
   >> relative future, the natural way time flows, and indirectly the past   
   >> because of the loops made by effected time travelers.   
   >   
   > I like the way you think, kid.   
      
   Thank you kindly!   
      
   >>   
   >> The Narada... Those miners seemed to be part of a different culture   
   >> than the Romulans we know about thus far. Which can be explained by   
   >> the fact that most of those had been either in the military or in   
   >> politics.   
   >   
   > Don't group the military with politicians! It's sacrilege! ;-)   
      
   Sorry! ;-)   
      
   >>   
   >> Nero himself was total nut case. He could have used a couple of   
   >> lessons from Spock when he was younger.   
   >   
   > I have to wonder how a fruit loop like him managed to get so many   
   > followers.  Wait - that happens with politicians; nevermind.   
   >   
   >> The moment he realized he was in the past he might have chosen to   
   >> head for Romulus and/or slingshot back into the future in order to   
   >> use the red matter sooner! Romulus would have been saved and he   
   >> would not need to seek revenge. But then again, I doubt logic was   
   >> his strong suit.   
   >   
   > I doubt knowing what day it is would be his strong suit.   
      
   Indeed. He had to ask his hostage the stardate.   
   BTW... Speaking of stardates... Here they used actual years as the base for   
   stardates. Another departure from the prime line.   
      
   >>   
   >> The red matter was a curious find for this movie. We know Romulan   
   >> Warbirds are powered by a singularity but I understand this Red   
   >> Matter has a different origin. I did half and half expect Sidney   
   >> Bristow to show up, stopping Nero. :-)   
   >   
   > Heh, I didn't even catch that part - but I'll watch really carefully   
   > when my DVD arrives.   
      
   I think the red blob FX was very similar to what could be seen in 'Alias'.   
      
   >>   
   >> The heroes. Well, vehicular wise this was a very different Kirk. Not   
   >> surprising since the focal point of the changes was his life. The   
   >> same goes for most of the characters. Most close to the originals   
   >> were Quinto as Spock (mostly because of his looks) and Urban as   
   >> McCoy (almost too good a match). Really totally different were   
   >> Chekov and Scott. The latter being borderline ADHD I think. And what   
   >> was that short angry alien doing there? He reminded me of Zathras a   
   >> bit.   
   >   
   > Not his fault, but I know Urban too well from Xena, so I kept   
   > expecting him to be called "Caesar" LOL.  As for his take on Bones, I   
   > thought he   
   > overdid it a little, but was *way* better than Trinnear's Bones-esque   
   > take on Enterprise.  I wish they'd done much more with the little   
   > alien guy.  I thought Chekov (a real Russian, no less) was hilarious.   
      
   I do remember seeing Caesar on Xena, but for a million years I would not   
   recognize Caesar in Bones.   
      
      
   >>   
   >> Taking a few steps back, taking into account this is a totally   
   >> alternate universe, I have some mixed feelings about the way the   
   >> film was made. The first half seemed too loose and fast. Way too   
   >> MTV. Maybe because it is aimed at a younger age group than mine. The   
   >> second part of the movie, from Kirk's stay on that other Delta Vega   
   >> was the better half.   
   >   
   > Younger age group than yours?!  We talking Dora The Explorer? Spongebob   
   > Squarepants?   
      
   I have heard vaguely of Spongebob, and saw that image in toy store windows.   
   Those other names don't ring a bell.   
   I was born in 1966.   
      
      
   >>   
   >> As a whole it can be seen as a 'Collage Homage' to the classic   
   >> series, mixing images and sound bites from Treks past into a story   
   >> that is a bit shaky.   
   >   
   > Which I thought was cool.   
   >   
   >> I would have made two or three movies from that first half or so (up   
   >> until the Vulcan distress call) and use those to flesh out Kirk's   
   >> life in a more in depth manner.   
   >   
   > Now, I *did not* like what they did with Vulcan.  Just didn't mesh.   
      
   I didn't like that either.   
      
   >   
   >> But I guess such a thing will never happen because that wouldn't be   
   >> fast or MTV enough.   
   >   
   > *shrug*   
   >   
   >> Speaking of MTV, I think it was funny to hear 'The Beasty Boys'. As   
   >> being an Abrams product I would expect to hear 'Drive Shaft'. :-)   
   >> This however was a better choice.   
   >   
   > I don't know Beastie Boys' stuff, so I didn't catch that.   
      
   The song was 'Sabotage'. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkw0e0Jcn9A   
   They made the video as if it was the opening credits of a cop show.   
   Young Kid Kirk played it on his audio system when he drove that car over the    
   edge.   
      
      
   But they are best known for: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NdAUnnU9Ac ;-)   
      
      
      
   >>   
   >> Bottom line: Do I regret getting this DVD (2 disc edition)? Nope! :-)   
   >> Will it replace the originals? Never!   
   >   
   > Of course not - and only those who are determined to hate it will   
   > think it even *tries* to replace TOS.   
      
   It really can't .   
      
   >   
   >> It starts as this sloppy homage to Trek's past and at the end it   
   >> finishes relatively well.   
   >   
   > Sounds like you enjoyed it a lot less than I did, but I think you're   
   > fair in your assessments.   
      
   I didn't hate it. :-)   
      
   >   
   >> Relatively because they were not able to save Amanda and Vulcan. But   
   >> again since I consider those not to be 'our' Amanda and Vulcan, the   
   >> loss isn't felt that strong.   
   >>   
   >>   
   >   
   > Yeah, losing Amanda was a big mistake, IMO - just wasn't any real   
   > point to it.  We know damned well Spock isn't going to implode (at least   
   > not   
   > publicly) so the dramatic effect was wanting.  Sarek reacted with more   
   > emotion than Spock, which *was* interesting, but not worth losing the   
   > character of Amanda.   
      
   It was used mostly as a story device to make Spock go crazy after being   
   provoked by Kirk.   
   That in itself was a nod to several episodes of TOS.   
      
      
   --    
   Wouter Valentijn www.j3v.net   
      
   http://www.nksf.scifics.com/startrek.html   
      
   Buffy: This is the Initiative Xander.  Military guys and scientists do not   
   make out with each other.   
   Xander: Well maybe that's what's wrong with the world. Ever think about   
   that?   
      
   'Buffy the Vampire Slayer 4x14: Goodbye Iowa'   
      
   liam=mail   
      
      
      
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