From Newsgroup: alt.tv.star-trek.tos
From Address: liam@valentijn.nu
Subject: Re: Star Trek 2009, I saw it this week (spoilers if you haven't seen
it yet) - very long response
"Fozzi" schreef in bericht
news:3GwLm.54856$ze1.53213@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
> "Wouter Valentijn" wrote in message
> news:4afde0b5$0$22919$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
>> Mind you, I already saw several trailers and read dozens of spoilers. It
>> wasn't that new to me. :-)
>> Some assumptions I made were wrong. I thought there would be only one age
>> for Nero whilst another poster with whom I had a discussion about this
>> said there were decades between. He was obviously right. Advance Scout?
>> Those twelve hundred quatloos are transferred!
>>
>> I consider this movie to be a totally alternate timeline, only a few
>> levels
>> more serious than 'In the Pirkering'.
>> When did this timeline start to splice of? I think even before Nero
>> showed
>> up.
>
> NB everything I write below is simply my opinion, I'm saying it up here
> cause I dont want to write IMO 45000 times.
I get that. :-)
>
> Possibly, not really enough evidence either way yet is there ?.
>
>
>>
>> If you look at the scenes involving the Kelvin you see a vessel you would
>> not think possible for that time period. Outwardly it is reminiscent of
>> the
>> classic (non-canon) destroyer / scout configuration of the Starfleet Tech
>> manual of the '70's. But it seems a great deal bigger and more modern
>> too.
>> It had 800 people or more on board and scores of shuttlecraft! And what
>> was
>> a pregnant woman doing on board? Passenger? Was there an early experiment
>> involving family on board starships before the days of Picard?
>>
>
> You are assuming she isn't also a member of the crew, im not sure that
> this is necessarily a valid assumption.
Okay.... She might be crew.
Which reminds me that in the naming of Kirk they didn't follow the
(non-canon) novel based on The Motion Picture too close. There Jim's
grandfather was a Samuel who had a 'fascination' for the old emperor
Tiberius (but maybe he officiously renamed himself), and 'Jim' was the name
of his mother's first lover. Which of course does not exclude the
possibility that that wasn't George's father.
This I'm saying from the top of my head. I'm not sure. Since that never was
official canon I would let it slide, but I do think it's interesting to
notice.
>>
>> The Narada... Those miners seemed to be part of a different culture than
>> the Romulans we know about thus far. Which can be explained by the fact
>> that most of those had been either in the military or in politics.
>
> Pretty much exactly what the commentary track says too.
Ah, I rarely listen to those things. :-)
>
>>
>> Nero himself was total nut case. He could have used a couple of lessons
>> from Spock when he was younger.
>> The moment he realized he was in the past he might have chosen to head
>> for Romulus and/or slingshot back into the future in order to use the red
>> matter sooner! Romulus would have been saved and he would not need to
>> seek revenge. But then again, I doubt logic was his strong suit.
>
> Same thought I had, as the movie stands he had enough time to both rescue
> Romulus and get revenge against Spock, mind you the original script did
> cover this. The Kelvins suicide run pushed the Nerada into the Klingon
> Neutral Zone, the severely crippled Nerada was captured by Klingons and
> Nero and crew spend the vast majority of those years on Rura Penthe,
> having seen the Klingon costumes I am damn glad this sequence was cut.
I don not recall having seen the costumes, but that whole storyline would
open up a can of worms.
If the Klingons had gotten their hands on the Narada they would have become
unstoppable. They would not let an opportunity pass by to learn from a
captured ship like that. I'm verry glad that was dropped.
> While we are on the point of logic original Spock is once again (Abrams is
> hardly the first to commit this sin) given the logical ability of a school
> boy who fell asleep in science class IOW since when has a super nova been
> a threat to the entire galaxy, or to anything more than about one light
> week away from the imploding star (yep I said implode Super Novea implode
> not explode, the star colapses in on itself as the spent fuel no longer
> can provide enough pressure to support the exterior layers, matter isn't
> ejected until the implosion reduces the star to a smaller dimension thus
> over correcting the pressure imbalance in the internal layers, as far as
> astronomers can tell this is actually the last stage of he Nova event and
> with the gigantic size of stars that are capable of going super novae this
> can take days or even weeks after the star collapses, again abrams is
> hardly the frst to commit this sin either). Our galaxy has a super nova
> event, on average, once per century, the most recent was within the
> lifetime of most people in this group, last time I checked the galaxy is
> still here.
Ah, well, most franchises commit sins like that. Remember 'Space: 1999'?
>
> Pegg is very good, after Pine and Uhura he is the one to depart most in
> performance, but we must remember the original Scotty did have moments
> where he could be quite excitable and this is Scotty nearly twenty years
> younger than what we were used to him, he hasnt yet learned to temper
> himself and use his excitability to his advantage.
I thought the original Scott was much older... Ten years older or so than
Kirk.
> To my mind Uhura is a completely different charachter, Nicholls had the
> presence of a queen she made huge impacts even when she only had one or
> two mundane lines in an episode, this young lady couldn't quite leave
> queens NY behind her. Her performance is respectful and entertaining but
> she did not really sell me the part. Note, being fairly oldschool in my
> values, unlike some others I have no problems with a woman insisting on a
> man earning the right to use her first name. The turbolift scene pissed me
> off royally but that is Kurtzman and Orci's fault not hers, B-level
> actresses do not argue minutea with writers, directors and producers if
> they ever want a hope in hell of being considered A-level actresses.
Nichel's Uhura struck me as more professional.
> Chekov I also agree is very different, I suspect he had never really
> watched Trek b4 getting the part, and doubt he watched much after getting
> it, he was told they wanted a Russian accent and thats what he tried to
> give them only to find out they actually wanted a chekov accent which,
> lets face it, is a hollywood russian accent and not even remotely like a
> real russian accent. That being said he did a significantly better job of
> portraying a prodigy than Koenig, afterall most people dont even realise
> that the original Chekov is supposed to be an intellectual prodigy until
> one reads the background material written by Roddenberry and Koenig
> himself.
There are a few moments in which it shows. Like in his first episode afaik
and when it was up to him to scan for Spock in 'The Enterprise Incident'.
> I think Sarek has to be considered a major charachter as well and again I
> think the actor performed the part quite well. The interesting thing is
> many among the cast are actually trekkers themselves including Urban, Pegg
> (both of whom are actually old school trekkers), Greenwood and Quinto. Oh
> I almost forgot Greenwood, while quite different from the original Pike I
> think he does manage to capture the essence of the charachter in an
> interesting way. As I said above the casting is the best element in this
> movie and, I feel, a sign of possible promise for the future
Agreed. The actors do their best.
>> Speaking of MTV, I think it was funny to hear 'The Beasty Boys'. As being
>> an Abrams product I would expect to hear 'Drive Shaft'. :-) This however
>> was a better choice.
>
> Abrams answers this on the commentary, Burke asks "why sabotage by the
> beastie boys" Abrams answers "because it's a kick-ass song"
Well, yeah. :-)
>
>
>>
>> Bottom line: Do I regret getting this DVD (2 disc edition)? Nope! :-)
>
> I got mine for free and I never look a gift horse in the mouth, so agreed
>
>> Will it replace the originals? Never!
>
> In our hearts, no, but if it is successful, and they have covered enough
> bases that it might be, then our Trek is effectively dead in the general
> sence, the new audiences to a large extent are not going to be
> particularly interested in what came before because in story terms that
> universe now only exists in the mind of Spock and in a sence, from the
> perspective of people in the new universe, is merely a delusion of Spocks.
> When Frank Force (aka) Leonard Nimoy passes the new universe loses it's
> only tangible link with the old.
For the time being...
Anyway, I think that 'our' Trek will be dead the moment 'we' are dead.
>
>> It starts as this sloppy homage to Trek's past and at the end it finishes
>> relatively well.
>> Relatively because they were not able to save Amanda and Vulcan. But
>> again since I consider those not to be 'our' Amanda and Vulcan, the loss
>> isn't felt that strong.
>>
>
> Agreed
>
> additional:-
>
> In my opinion this movie is on the whole rubbish, BUT it is better than I
> expected it to be, this is one of the few reboots I have seen that
> actually does come close to working. It doesn't quite but it comes close,
> if they can get a run of three or four movies going and they keep to a
> similar balance of respecting the old and creating the new then by the
> third movie it may be very interesting indeed.
Yep.
--
Wouter Valentijn www.j3v.net
http://www.nksf.scifics.com/startrek.html
Buffy: This is the Initiative Xander. Military guys and scientists do not
make out with each other.
Xander: Well maybe that's what's wrong with the world. Ever think about
that?
'Buffy the Vampire Slayer 4x14: Goodbye Iowa'
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