XPost: alt.atheism, alt.agnosticism, sci.skeptic
XPost: alt.christnet
From: bruces42@hotmail.com

On 07/07/2014 06:56 PM, felix_unger wrote:
> On 08-July-2014 2:20 AM, BruceS wrote:
>> On 07/06/2014 09:46 PM, felix_unger wrote:
>>> On 07-July-2014 11:10 AM, BruceS wrote:
>>>> On 07/06/2014 02:42 AM, felix_unger wrote:
>>>>> On 06-July-2014 5:21 PM, BruceS wrote:
>>>>>> On 07/04/2014 04:57 PM, felix_unger wrote:
>>>>>>> On 04-July-2014 1:06 AM, BruceS wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 07/02/2014 06:30 PM, felix_unger wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 02-July-2014 8:40 AM, BruceS wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 07/01/2014 12:36 PM, bilgat@m.nu wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> why are you not agnostic. you sound alot more agnostic than
>>>>>>>>>>> atheist.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Agnostic holds the position that the existence of a god is
>>>>>>>>>>> unknowable
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There's the rub. Agnosticism holds that it's not possible to know
>>>>>>>>>> whether gods exist. I don't buy that. I'm perfectly willing to
>>>>>>>>>> accept
>>>>>>>>>> the existence of gods, given objective evidence for their
>>>>>>>>>> existence.
>>>>>>>>>> Having not seen any such evidence, I remain without any belief in
>>>>>>>>>> their existence.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> so lets talk about what you do believe then, to be consistent with
>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>> position of no evidence for God.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To simplify, I believe I have never seen objective evidence for the
>>>>>>>> existence of magical powers.  So, what specifically do *you*
>>>>>>>> believe?
>>>>>>>> Do you actually believe in one or more of the popular gods, and if
>>>>>>>> so,
>>>>>>>> why those and not all the others?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> you believe then that NO prayer has
>>>>>>>>> ever been answered or ever will be. you believe that NO person
>>>>>>>>> ever
>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>> ever had any spiritual encounter or experience, or ever will. you
>>>>>>>>> believe there's NO evidence that Jesus ever existed, despite
>>>>>>>>> what is
>>>>>>>>> written in the bible. you believe that NO story in the bible,
>>>>>>>>> or any
>>>>>>>>> other holy book, is true or really happened. you believe that NO
>>>>>>>>> prophecy has ever been or ever will be fulfilled. you believe
>>>>>>>>> there is
>>>>>>>>> NO creator, and all life and existence must have some other
>>>>>>>>> cause or
>>>>>>>>> origin. you believe there is NO afterlife although you can't
>>>>>>>>> prove it.
>>>>>>>>> you believe that ALL the billions of ppl who believe in God are
>>>>>>>>> deluded.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You got some right, and missed on others.  That's about as
>>>>>>>> accurate as
>>>>>>>> a psychic reading, so I guess it's no surprise coming from a
>>>>>>>> proponent
>>>>>>>> of magic.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> and so on, and so on. Of course you can and will believe what you
>>>>>>>>> like,
>>>>>>>>> but I as I've said, I believe the claim that there's no evidence
>>>>>>>>> for God
>>>>>>>>> is just silly, and that it takes much more to credulity to
>>>>>>>>> believe it
>>>>>>>>> than to accept that there is evidence, because there clearly
>>>>>>>>> is. the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And yet, every time you're asked for evidence of gods, you
>>>>>>>> resort to
>>>>>>>> evidence that some people *believe* in gods instead. It's been
>>>>>>>> pointed out to you repeatedly that similar evidence exists to
>>>>>>>> support
>>>>>>>> beliefs in many different gods, some of which preclude others,
>>>>>>>> so at
>>>>>>>> least some of those beliefs are definitely wrong. None of those
>>>>>>>> beliefs have (as far as I've seen) any better evidence to support
>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>> than the others, and none of them have any evidence better than the
>>>>>>>> evidence that there people who believe there are no gods. How is it
>>>>>>>> "silly" to just not accept any gods or other supernatural things
>>>>>>>> without evidence that directly supports them?  Isn't it a lot more
>>>>>>>> silly to believe in one (or one group) of particular gods, to the
>>>>>>>> exclusion of the others?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> more I see atheists wanting to deny there's any evidence for God,
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> more I'm convinced they're simply running scared from the
>>>>>>>>> possibility
>>>>>>>>> that any religious claims may be true. I've yet to see any atheist
>>>>>>>>> come
>>>>>>>>> out and say.. "yes, there's plenty of evidence for God, but I
>>>>>>>>> simply
>>>>>>>>> don't want to accept it"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There's plenty of evidence that people believe in gods, and have
>>>>>>>> done
>>>>>>>> so for a very long time.  I accept that, even though it's remotely
>>>>>>>> possible it's all been faked somehow.  You still haven't presented
>>>>>>>> even a shred of evidence that any one or more of these gods
>>>>>>>> actually
>>>>>>>> exist, outside the imaginations of the believers. Are you
>>>>>>>> prepared to
>>>>>>>> do that now?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the only point I make, that I have ever tried to make, is that
>>>>>>> there is
>>>>>>> evidence for God. you can say it's just evidence that ppl believe in
>>>>>>> God/gods if you wish, but that's not true. all of those things I
>>>>>>> mentioned that you don't believe in are evidence for God, not just
>>>>>>> evidence of belief. the bible stories about Jesus are evidence for
>>>>>>> Jesus, not just what someone believes. any prayer that is claimed to
>>>>>>> have been answered is evidence that prayer is answered, not just
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> ppl believe in answered prayer. every miracle that is said to have
>>>>>>> happened is evidence for miracles, and not that ppl believe in
>>>>>>> miracles.
>>>>>>> all I'm talking about here is evidence, not proof.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, they just aren't.  These stories are evidence that people wrote
>>>>>> the stories, and their popularity and the seriousness with which some
>>>>>> people treat them is evidence that some people believe the
>>>>>> stories. No
>>>>>> story is evidence of its own truth.  And no, we're not looking for
>>>>>> proof, just any actual evidence.  So the only point you make is
>>>>>> completely wrong. That must be frustrating.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's not. because I know I'm right. you're in d'nile because you
>>>>> want to
>>>>> believe there is simply NO evidence for God, because you want to
>>>>> believe
>>>>> that God does not exist. no 'normal' person says there is no evidence
>>>>> for God. only atheists do because they want to be atheists.
>>>>

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