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   PID: SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
   On 28/09/2024 10:25, Deloptes wrote:   
   > bp@www.zefox.net wrote:   
   >   
   >> This morning, after a few minutes' use of my Pi5 running Bookworm,   
   >> the WiFi connection abruptly dropped. Couldn't bring it back up,   
   >> so I rebooted the access point. No luck. Then I rebooted the Pi5   
   >> and noticed something about rfkill stopping wifi in the boot messages.   
   >> At this point the last reboot was several days past, wifi hadn't been   
   >> touched or given any trouble.   
   >   
   > do you have NTP configured and do you have networkmanager in use?   
   >   
   > If not get them running and see if it solved the issues.   
   >   
   > (been there seen it all)   
   >   
   > BR   
      
   Hard to get NTP to run without a network connection   
      
   My PICO pi Ws dont even have calendar clocks, and they connect OK.   
   Let me list all the things that people have said fucked up their wifi on   
   PI Zeros Ws...and other Pis...   
      
   - power saving mode (one existing Pi Zero  W had it, the other did not.   
   No difference connecting to same wifi access point)   
   - different wifi chipset (eventually I discovered all my pis were   
   running the same chipset)   
   - interference from HDMI (Headless. HDMI disabled)   
   - random allocation of MAC addresses.  (disabled - no difference)   
   - No NTP configured (you) [always configured by me anyway]   
   - network manager not running (you) [it's part of the default bookworm   
   installation]   
   - various odd 802.11 modes on their router.. (my other two Pis connected   
   to my main wifi point just fine. I changed the Pi to run on a different   
   one and the problem persisted)   
   - crappy power supply (me, and others) [ changing the power supply has   
   resulted in no drops since connected to any WiFi access point]   
      
   (pifi2:~ $ uptime   
     11:52:12 up 1 day, 22:49,  2 users,  load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00   
      
   That now running against  the access point that it had when dropping out   
   at least once every 24 hours   
      
   I will leave it a few more days to make sure...)   
      
   As you can see I went through *every single one*.   
      
   And fixed it one way or another, (I didn't worry about ntp: If I am   
   running linux on a network there is no way that wont be enabled by me,   
   and Bookworm defaults to network manager anyway, so  that  is also  default)   
      
   The *only* one that actually fixed the problem and made Bookworm Pi Z 2W   
   as rock stable as all my other Pi's was putting a larger PSU on it.   
      
   I am not saying that other people's problems are the same cause, but I   
   am saying that hairy ass guesses are simply no substitute for trying   
   *all* of the above systematically.   
      
   Because the  log files - systemd or otherwise -, are simply full of   
   useless detail. There to help the programmer debug his code, not to help   
   Joe Ordinary find out why his wifi is fucked.   
      
   For us, its a matter of trial and error until a stable system is arrived at.   
      
   Now my *conjecture* is that both a Zero 2W,  a Pi 5 and indeed Bookworm   
   on it, use more power. And a marginal PSU will fail more readily, and   
   the wifi is the first point of failure   
      
   Because this problem is not in general related to Bookworm on any other   
   platform. And the wifi chips themselves are pretty much the same   
      
   But in the end, my original thread was not 'give me your hairy assed   
   guesses' but 'how do I solve this issue algorithmically'   
      
   And the answer was that the log files were useless, and trial and error   
   and eliminating one issue at a time was the only pragmatic approach.   
      
   And everyone had a 'this worked for me' fix and none of them were the same.   
      
   Now I too have a 'this worked for me' fix, but I *also* have a pragmatic   
   approach to bug hunting this one.   
      
      
   --   
   "Anyone who believes that the laws of physics are mere social   
   conventions is invited to try transgressing those conventions from the   
   windows of my apartment. (I live on the twenty-first floor.) "   
      
   Alan Sokal   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
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