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   REPLY: <20240211140438.ca8b1c2e95731b20793f803c@eircom.net> 99c6db57   
   PID: SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
   On 11/02/2024 14:04, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:   
   > On Sun, 11 Feb 2024 10:02:46 +0000   
   > The Natural Philosopher  wrote:   
   >   
   >> So design your own chip!   
   >   
   > 	Do you trust the chip layout software not to embed a backdoor or   
   > something ? What do you run that chip layout software on and why do you   
   > trust that system. You'd best start from MSI TTL/CMOS logic and build your   
   > own system to run the chip design software (that you write or at least   
   > audit) to design the chips.   
   >   
      
   I think that its pretty difficult to encode an invisible backdoor in the   
   silicon and not have it spotted at some fairly early stage.   
      
   So many of these 'threat narratives' are, when examined closely,   
   implausible to the point of downright impossibility.   
      
   You can examine the machine code that your compiler and linker   
   assembles. And people do. I certainly have done. If it doesn't match   
   what you asked for in the high level language, there are questions to be   
   answered.   
      
   And of course the lower level the language the easier it is to check.   
   One reason why I don't like C++ and friends.   
      
   And likewise, if the silicon is updating bits of memory you didn't ask   
   it to, or doing stuff that you dont recognise as valid...   
      
   lets face it, I was watching an illicit free stream of an F1 race and   
   suddenly frames started dropping...and I looked at my network widget and   
   saw my uplink to the internet was being saturated. I was it seemed, part   
   of some javascript botnet. It finished as soon as I closed the browser   
   window.   
      
   These things get *noticed*.   
      
   >> The ARM is a special CPU that was designed initially to beat the 6502   
   >> and walk all over z80s and 8080s.   
   >   
   > 	I know - I was in Cambridge and in the business when it was being   
   > done. I knew about the ARM before it was released, they were pretty good at   
   > keeping it out of the rumour mill but nothing is completely secret in   
   > Cambridge. Earliest rumours had Andy Hopper involved.   
   >   
   > 	The modern ARMv8 architecture bears little resemblance to the   
   > original ARM used in the Archimedes, it has become massively complex.   
      
   True, but not germane to the point that its possible for a very small   
   number of people to create a CPU, write an assembler, write a compile in   
   assembler and bootsrtap their way to a known (to them, at least) good   
   secure chipset and toolchain.   
      
   And the antidote to all these people who assure you that lizards are   
   running the earth and bugging their brains with embedded chips is to   
   tell them to do precisely that.   
      
   Or assure them that the only reason they think that, is *because the   
   lizards want then to*.   
      
   :-)   
      
   >   
      
   --   
   "When one man dies it's a tragedy. When thousands die it's statistics."   
      
   Josef Stalin   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)   
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