From: heller@deepsoft.com   
      
   At Wed, 02 Jul 2014 12:40:12 -0500 Stephen Sprunk  wrote:   
      
   >   
   > On 02-Jul-14 11:57, Robert Heller wrote:   
   > > "Adam H. Kerman"  wrote:   
   > >> If the copper pair is in good condition, it's still useful for data   
   > >> and voice needs. Cable distributors providing broadband manage to   
   > >> do it on coax, which is ancient wiring technology too.   
   > >   
   > > Actually, by *world* standards, what the USA Cable distributors (eg   
   > > Comcast and Time Warner) provide is sub-standard. DSL technology is   
   > > EOL (End of Life) -- the equipment is no longer being made or   
   > > supported.   
   >   
   > It's definitely still being made.  Perhaps some countries' telcos aren't   
   > buying it anymore, but that's a totally different matter.   
   >   
   > > Copper *IS* becoming a "dead" telecom technology and is pretty much   
   > > dead in most of the *developed* world and is dieing in the   
   > > developing world. It seems to be 'hanging on' in the USA,   
   > > however.   
   >   
   > The US has a very large installed base of copper, unlike developing   
   > countries, and a lower population density than other developed   
   > countries, which makes switching to fiber more costly.   
   >   
   > FTTN is a good compromise for our particular case.   
   >   
   > >> btw, there are two different fiber models. I dunno why you were   
   > >> saying you have "FiOS" (the i is lower case), which is Verizon's   
   > >> marketing term. We all know that Verizon was rolling out FiOS   
   > >> slowly and pretty much stopped at some point, due to its incredible   
   > >> expense. Your notion that fiber is cost effective to install is   
   > >> goofy.   
   > >   
   > > It is no more expensive than stringing copper on the utility poles.   
   > > Actually *fiber* cables are getting to be cheaper than copper --   
   >   
   > For new lines, sure.  However, in most cases the copper lines are a sunk   
   > cost, and replacing them with fiber would cost a lot of money.   
      
   Unless the copper is falling apart (in places it litterally is). Yes, it costs   
   more to replace the *existing* copper with fiber, but if you are going to   
   *replace* the infrastructure, replacing it with *old* [dead end] technology is   
   just plain stupid. In the case of Western Mass (probably all of the rural   
   areas of the east coast), the copper is old and has NOT been maintained well   
   over the past several decades. The climate all up and down the Appliciacian   
   mountain chain is hard on things like telephone wire -- it rains alot, there   
   are hurricanes, snow storms, etc. And Verizon has not been incrementally   
   replacing the cables and the telcos that Verizon sold most of it off to don't   
   have the funds to replace the cables (and at least one is bankrupt). The   
   cables are old and it bad shape and need to be replaced. It is *dumb* to   
   replace them with copper.   
      
   >   
   > > copper is slowly becoming a 'precious' metal -- people are doing   
   > > things like stealing copper pipes from old buildings to sell for   
   > > scrap.   
   >   
   > It's not just copper pipe; some desperate people steal phone and cable   
   > wires right off the poles or dig up buried lines.  Heck, every few weeks   
   > there's a story in the news about some moron being electrocuted while   
   > trying to steal live power lines.   
   >   
   > That is actually one the best reasons for switching to fiber: dig up all   
   > that valuable copper before the thieves do.   
   >   
   > > Yes, Verizon has pretty much stopped rolling out FiOS.   
   >   
   > They're still marketing the heck out of it here.  Perhaps you mean   
   > they're not introducing it in additional exchanges?   
      
   Yes.  They are looking to take market share from the likes of Comcast or Time   
   Warner.  All of the ads *I've* every seen seem to be geared in that light.   
      
   >   
   > > Right now, Verizon has sold off almost all of their copper   
   > > telephone infrastructure -- only in Mass. does Verizon have any   
   > > copper telephone infrastructure,   
   >   
   > What?  Verizon is still the ILEC for a big chunk of the country.   
      
   No, they have sold off most of their *copper* landline business and are   
   concentrating on wireless.  (At least on the East coast.)   
      
   >   
   > > Verizon *has* been 'called on the carpet' about these issues, but I   
   > > Verizon would rather pay fines than actually fix things. The fines   
   > > are probably cheaper than the cost of fixing the phone lines -- in   
   > > some cases the cables need to be completly replaced, which Verizon   
   > > is not going to do.   
   >   
   > That's a big problem with our regulatory system: it's often cheaper to   
   > pay the fines than to correct the problem.   
      
   In Verizon's case, Verizon is too big to punish.   
      
   >   
   > HIPPA was the same way, at least at first.  Nearly every hospital I   
   > talked to said it was cheaper to pay the fines than to replace their   
   > existing stuff with HIPPA-compliant versions--and that's assuming the   
   > govt found out about the problems; fines are rare in practice.   
   >   
   > S   
   >   
      
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