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   RAILFAN      Trains, model railroading hobby      3,261 messages   

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   Message 800 of 3,261   
   John Levine to All   
   Re: loss of citizenship, was more time z   
   24 Jun 14 16:40:24   
   
   From: johnl@iecc.com   
      
   >>>I think that's an income tax thing.   
   >   
   >>No, it was Afroyim v. Rusk, a Supreme Court decision in 1967, which reversed   
   >>several other decisions going back to 1898 and said the only way to lose US   
   >>citizenship is to voluntarily renounce it.   
   >   
   >>Since then the Congress has indeed passed a bunch of laws that make it   
   >>hard to renounce your citizenship, and demand large payments to   
   >>compensate for all the taxes a nonresident would presumably stop   
   >>paying.   
   >   
   >So you're saying it's like a tax law thing.   
      
   Only partly.   
      
   Historically, the US viewed citizenship as a privilege, and if you did   
   something disloyal like vote in someone else's election or fight in   
   their army or accept their citizenship, you lost it, and courts   
   confirmed that.  In the 1960s, the courts did a U-turn and now read   
   the 14th Amendment to say that you're a citizen almost regardless of   
   what you do, until you specifically say you're not.   
      
   The US is the only country to demand that non-resident citizens pay   
   income taxes just like residents.  As taxes have become more   
   complicated, this means that if you live outside the US, it is a huge   
   hassle to be a US citizen.  Even though there are credits for most   
   double taxation (US and where they live), friends who live outside the   
   US assure me that just the paperwork is a huge hassle.  As a result,   
   the vast majority of people who renounce US citizenship do so to stop   
   having to pay US taxes.   
      
   The Congress has realized this is a gravy train, all these allegedly   
   rich people who live outside the US, pay taxes, and consume no   
   services.  So they've made it harder and harder to renounce.   
      
   A little Googlage will find lots of horror stories, US citizens who   
   live in Canada or Europe and tearfully renounce citizenship because   
   they can't afford to pay taxes they never realized they owed.   
      
   --   
   Regards,   
   John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",   
   Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly   
      
   --- SoupGate/W32 v1.03   
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