From: stephen@sprunk.org   
      
   On 23-Jun-14 19:30, Adam H. Kerman wrote:   
   > Stephen Sprunk  wrote:   
   >> On 23-Jun-14 16:23, Adam H. Kerman wrote:   
   >>> Stephen Sprunk  wrote:   
   >>>> On 23-Jun-14 15:04, Adam H. Kerman wrote:   
   >>>>> Stephen Sprunk  wrote:   
   >>>>>> It's unclear to me whether they _always_ get that note on their   
   >>>>>> passports or only in the case where they specifically request   
   >>>>>> it, which would seem rather odd.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> It was quite clear to me that, unless they apply for the   
   >>>>> specific notion using the specific form, their passport won't   
   >>>>> make the distinction.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> There is no mention on that page of what happens if they apply for   
   >>>> a US passport _without_ using that form.   
   >>>   
   >>> Uh, they don't get the supposed benefit of the distinction being   
   >>> noted on their passport, duh.   
   >>   
   >> Maybe, maybe not.  That web page does not say either way.   
   >   
   > The Web page exists for those who would want such a thing. You're not   
   > going to get it without applying for it. I have no idea why this   
   > would confuse you.   
      
   Again, the web page does not say they _don't_ put that notation in a   
   regular passport for a non-citizen national.  For all you or I know,   
   they put both sets of applications into the same pile and issue the same   
   thing (with notation, if applicable) for both of them.  After all, why   
   produce two different types of passports for the same people?  The point   
   of using the passport to meet that legal mandate was to _not_ do   
   something different.   
      
   >> I didn't have to gather any paperwork from Justice or Homeland   
   >> Security when I applied for my first passport, yet State managed to   
   >> figure out that I'm a US national/citizen just fine without it.   
   >   
   > Terrific. Didn't your birth certificate establish your citizenship?   
   > It does for everyone else born here.   
      
   Of course, but you're the one who said "it's not up to the State   
   Department to determine who is a citizen and who is a national? That's   
   up to Justice and Homeland Security, not State."  If that is true, then   
   how did State determine (from my paperwork) that I was a citizen?  If   
   you are claiming they consulted DOJ/DHS to make the determination, then   
   why couldn't they do the same for non-citizen nationals?   
      
   >> That's not uncommon; many smaller nations have their foreign   
   >> relations (and defense) handled by a larger, friendly nation.  New   
   >> Zealand does so for many Pacific island nations, for instance, and   
   >> Switzerland does so for many more--including for the US in Cuba.   
   >   
   > I just read that Switzerland finally became a UN member a few years   
   > ago.   
      
   Yep; for a long time, they apparently thought neutrality precluded   
   joining the UN, though I never understood why.  They still haven't   
   joined the European Union, Eurozone, etc. for similar reasons.   
      
   S   
      
   --   
   Stephen Sprunk         "God does not play dice."  --Albert Einstein   
   CCIE #3723         "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the   
   K5SSS        dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking   
      
   --- SoupGate/W32 v1.03   
    * Origin: LiveWire BBS -=*=- UseNet FTN Gateway (1:2320/1)