From: stephen@sprunk.org   
      
   On 24-Apr-15 14:11, Adam H. Kerman wrote:   
   > Stephen Sprunk  wrote:   
   >> On 24-Apr-15 08:25, Adam H. Kerman wrote:   
   >>> Charles Ellson  wrote:   
   >>>> If you are ill beyond self-help you become a medical liability   
   >>>> upon others   
   >>>   
   >>> ... An injured or ill person can receive life-saving care (but   
   >>> not full treatment) in a hospital emergency room without ability   
   >>> to pay, but that's a condition of federal law for receiving   
   >>> payments through socialized medicine or having received past   
   >>> grants for new facilities or having a nonprofit tax status.   
   >>   
   >> ... which pretty much every hospital has received at some point, so   
   >> in practice it is a liability upon society.   
   >   
   > That's a hell of a lot of cost shifting. Any medical provider   
   > accepting Medicare must accept Medicaid. My state tends to be years   
   > behind in paying providers. You're not acknowledging reality even   
   > when the patient is receiving socialized medicine.   
      
   And why do we have Medicare, Medicaid, etc.?  Because as a society, we   
   accept that we have a moral obligation to provide certain services to   
   those who are unable to provide them for themselves, in particular the   
   elderly, the disabled and children.   
      
   >>> In a free society, why shouldn't that be a choice an adult can   
   >>> make for himself, as the only person he would harm is himself?   
   >>   
   >> Sometimes the adult can't afford the care they need, e.g. because   
   >> they are banned from buying insurance due to their immigration   
   >> status, which means there is no real choice available to them.   
   >   
   > The immigrant is aware of that and chose to come here anyway,   
   > probably from a country in which he might have lacked care anyway.   
      
   There are millions of people who were brought here as children, when   
   they had no choice in the matter, and have no memories of their country   
   of birth--nor any way to get back there.   
      
   >> Maybe you'll choose to blame the adults for such,   
   >   
   > I'm not blaming anyone but you, for setting up a straw man when you   
   > lack an argument.   
      
   No, I was pointing out that many people can't afford the health care   
   that they need, which is why we have insurance, but even then many   
   people can't afford insurance or are even prohibited from buying it.   
      
   So, what happens when such a person is injured or sick?  They wait until   
   it gets bad enough to get treatment in an ER, when it will cost us   
   taxpayers a lot more than if we had just treated them earlier.   
      
   >> but should such adults' children die from treatable injuries or   
   >> diseases due to their parents' choices (or lack thereof)?   
   >   
   > Golly! A straw man AND moving the goalposts! Classic Usenet stuff   
   > there.   
      
   It's neither.  Your position is that if someone doesn't have health   
   insurance, possibly through no fault of their own, we should leave them   
   to die from a treatable injury or disease.  I disagree.   
      
   S   
      
   --   
   Stephen Sprunk         "God does not play dice."  --Albert Einstein   
   CCIE #3723         "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the   
   K5SSS        dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking   
      
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