From: stephen@sprunk.org   
      
   On 08-Apr-14 15:59, Clark F Morris wrote:   
   > On Tue, 08 Apr 2014 14:04:41 -0500, Stephen Sprunk   
   >  wrote:   
   >> On 08-Apr-14 10:13, conklin wrote:   
   >>> "Stephen Sprunk"  wrote in message   
   >>> news:li0ugr$gps$2@dont-email.me...   
   >>>> On 07-Apr-14 14:03, conklin wrote:   
   >>>>> You said that, not me.  Passenger trains lose money, period,   
   >>>>>  anywhere.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> ... except for many places where they make a profit, including   
   >>>> Acela.   
   >>>>   
   >>>>> Even Trains Magazine made that statment about 2 months ago.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Cite?   
   >>>   
   >>> It was in the article about whether Amtrak would ever make   
   >>> money, etc.  I was going to post it at the time, but I assumed   
   >>> everyone knew that.  The pigs used to subsdize the passengers.   
   >>> Now that is not possible,   
   >>   
   >> Is has been proven around the world that, with modest capital   
   >> investment, passenger service turns a profit; it doesn't _need_   
   >> freight subsidies.   
   >   
   > Where?  The Swiss network gets government support.   
      
   They don't have HSR.   
      
   > The contracted out services in Germany are government supported.   
      
   What about HSR services that are NOT "contracted out"?   
      
   IIRC, many of Germany's non-HSR services turn a profit as well, which is   
   not the norm--but Germany uses a radically different fare and timetable   
   model that makes it hard to compare with other systems.   
      
   > Some but not all of the Shin Kansen need government support.   
      
   Several TGV lines turn a profit and in fact have already paid back all   
   the (govt) capital invested in them.   
      
   I'm not sure about the new HSR lines in Spain.   
      
   I doubt anyone has an honest picture of HSR in China, but with their low   
   labor costs and ridiculously high ridership, it's hard to imagine that   
   they're losing money.   
      
   Even the pitiful Acela covers its capital and operating costs above the   
   rail plus its share of capital and operating costs below the rail.   
      
   S   
      
   --   
   Stephen Sprunk         "God does not play dice."  --Albert Einstein   
   CCIE #3723         "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the   
   K5SSS        dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking   
      
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