From: heller@deepsoft.com   
      
   At Thu, 24 Jul 2014 23:22:00 +0000 (UTC)  wrote:   
      
   >   
   > "Adam H. Kerman"  wrote:   
   > > dpeltier@my-deja.com wrote:   
   > >> "Adam H. Kerman"  wrote:   
   > >   
   > >> My understanding is that the new standards will apply to liquids that have   
   > >> a certain flash point, regardless of the underlying chemistry, which is   
   > >> exactly as it should be. (But I haven't read the prosper rules myself.)   
   > >   
   > > The existing tank car standards were based on a particular flash point,   
   too.   
   > > Again, it's about tank cars are designed for X; don't put Y in them.   
   >   
   > That's not how it works. The regulations define a packing group based on   
   > flash point, which influences how the materials are to be shipped; but, the   
   > DOT-111 car is allowed to carry flammable liquids of any packing group.   
   >   
   > >   
   > >> It's not like there haven't been massive explosions resulting from   
   ethanol,   
   > >> see   
   > >> http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/ohio-train-explosion-caught-tape-16758671   
   > >> for a good video Tells you something about the relative power of Big Oil   
   > >> compared to the Ag industry, I guess...   
   > >   
   > > Are tank cars for ethanol not spec'ed to known characteristics of ethanol?   
   >   
   > The car is spec'ed to carry non-pressurized flammable liquids. The same car   
   > spec is required for crude oil, ethanol, gasoline, and other flammable   
   > liquids. It wasn't necessarily designed with any particular commodity in   
   > mind.   
      
   My understanding about the recent "crude oil" derailments / fires is not a   
   matter of "flammable liquids", but due to the fact that the crude oil in   
   question contains flammable *gases* (eg propane and butane) desolved in the   
   crude oil.  Different grades of crude oil have differing amounts of   
   'petrolelum gas' (propane and butane) and the current batches being shipped   
   have partitularly high amounts of these gases.  The tank cars are not pressure   
   sealed and contain some normal atmosphere (eg oxygen).  Tank cars for carying   
   propane are pressure sealed and don't have a layer of normal atmosphere in   
   them (actually the propane is pressurized enough to liquidfy, hence it is   
   known as LPG: Liquified Petolelum Gas).  I don't think butane is shipped much   
   in tank cars, since it occurs in much smaller qualities and is mostly used in   
   cigarette lighters and as a aserol propelent (spray paint cans, etc.).   
      
   >   
   > Dan   
   >   
      
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