MSGID: 1:153/757.0 a22b48e4   
   REPLY: 1:135/392 2cb999e8   
   TZUTC: -0800   
   CHARSET: LATIN-1   
   >> To the whingers about geographical & cosmology evidences, I point out that   
   > the Bible was not written to be a sciece textbook following modern rules of   
   > scxientific method.   
   > I like to think of it as things being explained as the people of the time   
   > could understand.   
   > Its like with children.   
      
   Yup, I;ve heard that said. You reply to a question in an age-appropriate way    
   (or vulture-appropriate, or whatever it takes for the other to understand all    
   they need to know; God knew what we needed & passed it on, for the parts He    
   dictated)   
      
   > When explaining something, such as "why does it rain?" its phrased was   
   > they understand: water evaporates, goes into the sky, forms clouds which when   
   > full of water, rain falls out.   
   > Not some long lecture on air pressure,  atmospheric conditions, and   
   > methods of meteorology they can't understand.  This comes later as they know   
   > more.   
      
   I still don't know that detailed model, but I get that it exists & I'm not   
   lost if it comes up.   
      
   >> That was the key problem with imperialistic religions: they broke away from   
   > the original "invitation" model & switched to "Obey or suffer & die at our   
   > hands" model.   
   > It has always been that way.   
   > The ancient Medes and Persians when they conquered a country did away   
   > with those peoples gods and replaced them with the ones of the Medes and   
   > Persians.   
      
   Yup, so it was in the Phoenician times, when Abraham came to understand that    
   house vs house leaves only beroken men & homes.  There must be one God above    
   all the pagan ones(gods based on nature)   
      
   The exact story t old is Abraham was lying on his back observing the sky, &   
   saw the sun as big, bright, & warm, & decided, "this is my God" but hen   
   clulds  obscured it, & he said "Those are my God" but then t he sun st & the   
   clouds  moved on & the moon rose, then ioty was obscured by colulds & finally    
   heconcluded there had to be One above the sun, clouds, & moon, then he   
   returned home & broke his dad's collection of idol(wares he made & sold to   
   support  himself)   
      
   His dad asked wjat happened, & young Abie pointed out that the big one   
   holding  the axe(that Abe had placed strategically in his hand) destroyed the   
   rest.   
      
   His dad replied, in a huff, "Don't be silly -- they're not alive."   
      
   "Then why do you pray to them & worship them as if they are?"   
      
   He yold his dad of his epiphany of a huge powerful God above all.   
      
   His dad went to the city(Ur) elders & had his son evicted from citizenship,   
   as  his ideas could cost the idol makers(as Ur was famed for) much profits.   
      
   Abie went one to found monotheism.  As this was the only way for people to   
   stop all the warring between houses & cities. ("my god is more powerful than   
   your  god" ("oh yeah?" Thenm let your god save your life as I slay you!")   
      
   Winner takes all & can add the others' god(s) to their own personal family    
   pantheon(totem)   
      
   It was a brutal time & not leaving much chance for humans to begin to evolve   
   a  workable society with laws & courts.    
      
   > The only empire that didn't do that, on a regular basis by force, were   
   > the Romans.  They sometimes accepted the conquered peoples gods along with   
   >their own. Rome: your god for X is so-and-so, our god for X is something else,   
   > same god different name lets get   
      
   Yup, they didn't understand the Jews & Chrustians, who refused to join   
   Roman's  wortship of Rome's pantheon.   
      
   Rome was flabergasted (What's the fleeping problem, go ahead & worship your god   
   & we will pray to Him, too, but you must bow rto our gods, especially to    
   Jupiter & to Caesar, who is a gods in his own right)   
      
   Those nutty Jews & Christians accepted death rather than practice polytheism!   
      
   My opinion is the ancient cults of Rome still exist, in secret, & disguised.   
      
   I call any religion that has a secret level &/or an esoteric meams of limited    
   entry a "cult."   
      
   An omnipotent universal & sovereign(might by right of making/owning   
   everthing)  God is God of all, or of no relevance to any.   
      
   Or, the kid's version for "sovereign" I came up with: "God is large & in    
   charge."   
      
   > At times the church was a bit over ambitious, believe or die.   
   > The Muslims also made converts at the edge of the sword and still do.   
      
   I'm well aware -00 been seeing tyhe news on it & friends keep me apprised of    
   the insideous movements throughout the world on their quest to be rulers of   
   an  all-Islam world.   
      
   Their definition of "peace" is all non-Muslims dead.   
      
   >> A simple misunderstanding of the early mistranslation "make disciples of   
   >nations" that clearly should've been rendered, "Accept seeking students withou   
   > concern for their nationality."   
   > Make, nor force.  :)   
   > Its one thing to show one is better than the other, another to say do it   
   > my way or else.   
      
   Exactly.  I tend to rebel against assumed authority -- you need to show me   
   the  chain of command from Sovereign Creation to whomever is claiming   
   authority over me.   
      
   God, for me, is axiomatic.   
      
   He gave authority to my parents when I was born.  My parents shared some of    
   their God-given authority to the schools, police, & government, & even the    
   occasional babysitter.   
      
   I, too, share my authority, as I believe we each have a certain amount vested    
   in us by nature of being alive in a society(herd), with t hose who re    
   democratically elected, & the texts that I've received that teach me of God.   
      
   If I want a cohesive society(& I do), a basic level of policing is necessary.   
      
   I only consider a polcde officer to have authority while s/he;s acting    
   according to his/her proper job duties.  When they gho over & above to wghere    
   they are being criminal, they should be treated as any other non-cop, for   
   that  is wehat they are when they are pistol whipping a cobnfession out of a   
   suspect.   
      
   In general, they're good, with a vey tough & thankless job.   
      
   But Io don't have a fixed bias for or against any group.   
      
   Anyone can go from good to bad, or vice-versa.   
      
   I used tobe quite the antisociual little twerp when young & stupid, but    
   thankfully I outgrew it & here I am, a paragon(maybe) of my local community!    
   hehhh   
      
   --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-5   
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