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   Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 10:19:31 -0600   
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   Newsgroups: alt.comp.freeware,alt.os.linux.ubuntu   
   Subject: Re: My ubuntu experience   
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   os.linux.ubuntu:9902   
      
   Slip Kid wrote:   
   > Richard Steven Hack wrote:   
   >> On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 22:37:17 +0000, Slip Kid wrote:   
   >>   
   >>> My 2 concerns:   
   >>> 1. I've never been a big fan of 3rd party bootloaders.   
   >>> boot.ini has been fine... I believe Ubuntu relies on GRUB?   
   >>   
   >> GRUB is excellent and will give you no problems. If you install it to the   
   >> MBR of the primary drive, it will pick up your other partitions   
   >> and bootloaders and add them to its boot menu, no problem.   
   >>   
   >>> Related, I also may have a non-standard MBR on the FAT partition (C:\).   
   >>> It 'is' FAT...but I 'replaced' the "Dell" MBR on the 'rescue'    
   >>> partition & copied one from MBRWiz.   
   >>   
   >> Oops, you're using Dell. All bets are off. Dell is CRAP. As far as I    
   >> know,   
   >> the Dell MBR is nonstandard, but since you've already messed with it,   
   >> probably there will be no affect on GRUB. I wouldn't worry about it. I   
   >> wouldn't be surprised if GRUB even picks up the Dell utilities partition   
   >> and adds it to its boot menu.   
   >    
   > I learned that the hard way...   
   > Dell (in '05 anyway) had a tiny partition for 'their stuff'.  It was    
   > hidden & 'ignored' when I wiped-out C:/ and added my FAT (and then FAT32    
   > partitions).   
   > Upon re-booting in PM I noticed the hidden partition, it was 'stuck'    
   > there and since I saw the MBR had a Dell signature I gave a shot at    
   > wiping it out with MBRWiz - - it worked and allowed me to put the FAT at    
   > the 'front' of the drive.   
   >    
   > So, I used a 'generic' MBR (from MBRWiz) & non-standard is not the    
   > correct term.   
   > But the Utilities partition is gone along with the original MBR.   
   > But the other (FAT32) partitions were created with PM & have been sized    
   > and resized since with no problems.   
   >    
   >>> 2. If I isolate the Ubuntu to 20Gig on disc2?   
   >>> Are my other partitions (partition tables etc.) unaffected? I have    
   >>> run into 'disc geometry' problems when resizing partitions...   
   >>   
   >> By definition, a partition table is limited to the hard drive it is on.   
   >> Therefore, if you install Ubuntu to that drive, the only partition table   
   >> that will be affected - barring some bizarre bug (which is not    
   >> impossible,   
   >> but unlikely) - will be that drive's table.    
   >    
   > So, on disc2 (the third drive) I will affect more than the partition in    
   > which Ubuntu resides?  I thought I was only changing the 20Gig of the    
   > 60Gig drive.   
   >    
   >> Your resizing problems could be real or imaginary on the part of the   
   >> partition application you used to do it with. Partition Magic, for   
   >> example, is crap that only works with Windows and even then used to crap   
   >> out on my system with a "I don't know what your partition table is"    
   >> stupid   
   >> error message a couple years ago whereas Windows and Linux both ran fine.   
   >    
   > ..as I testified.   
   >    
   >>>  Other than the loader on C:/, what else is written/changed on 'that'    
   >>> (my boot) partition?   
   >>   
   >> If you don't change the partition table, nothing should be written to it   
   >> except the boot loader, AFAIK. However, anything is possible, since    
   >> nobody   
   >> documents this stuff worth a damn.    
   >    
   > Since I have the 200meg of C:\ (FAT) on a CD?  All the Win sys files can    
   > be copied back to C:\.   
   > So I'm less concerned with any files but would be in more of a jam if    
   > that partition was changed by the install so I'd not be able to    
   > 'replace' C:\ if I did run into a serious problem.   
   >    
   >> The only problem that has occurred in recent years was back with Fedora   
   >> Core 2 when the new Linux 2.6 kernel came in. The new kernel changed the   
   >> way it reported disk geometry, and nobody at Fedora bothered to test   
   >> parted with the new kernel apparently. Their excuse was that nobody had a   
   >> dual-boot system to test (yeah, right, brilliant testing.) The result was   
   >> that Windows wouldn't boot after Fedora was installed. The Windows   
   >> partition was fine, it was just that Windows expected a couple bytes in   
   >> the partition table to be thus-and-so and parted didn't write them that   
   >> way. The fix was a one-line statement replacing those bytes with the   
   >> correct values.   
   >    
   > Yep, that's exactly the sort of 'change' (a couple of bytes one can't    
   > 'see'?) I don't wish be surprised with.   
   >    
   >> So anything is possible, but I haven't heard of any boot issues lately   
   >> with any of the main distros or Linux boot loaders.   
   >    
   > After the install of 'any' bootloader, am I unable to 'bypass' it or    
   > directly access boot.ini? Or is boot.ini done away with?   
   > I should still be able to boot to the XP installs by using the Win sys    
   > files, from floppy...   
   > But after POST, is there is no way to 'trigger' the Win boot routine as    
   > 'any' Linux bootloader writes the instruction back to the BIOS?   
   >    
   >>> I'm not concerned with 'catching on' and after 20 years with M$ made    
   >>> the transition to a Mac G4 in a few days.   
   >>   
   >> Linux can be harder than a Mac, but having learned to use another system   
   >> probably means you won't have any serious problems with Linux. Just   
   >> remember - it's NOT Windows OR a Mac.   
   >    
   > If the install doesn't wreck anything...I'll be OK!   
   >    
   >>> I do not want to put my 300Gig of data on 3 discs and 2 XP installs    
   >>> at risk. As it's 'more than another OS' I'm adding, will there be a    
   >>> ripple effect beyond the partition it is installed in?   
   >>   
   >> Nope. Nonetheless, prudence dictates always backing up everything before   
   >> messing with a system. Nonetheless, none of us does it, as everybody    
   >> knows.   
   >    
   > "Everything" means a few hundred gig.   
   > SiI have the apps and save vital data.   
   > I have to weigh the odds of a total system failure (3 discs?) against    
   > the 'how practical/how often' to back up a few hundred gig.   
   >    
   >>> I'm stuck w/giving up boot.ini  - - - What else (besides the 20Gig    
   >>> Ubuntu partition) will 'change' after the install?   
   >>   
   >> Nothing. GRUB will detect your other OS installs (if you choose to    
   >> install   
   >> to the MBR of the primary drive instead of the boot sector of the Ubuntu   
   >> drive) and build a boot menu with all of them on it. Both GRUB and LILO   
   >> are very good at that - I've never had a problem. Windows Vista is the   
   >> only OS that makes it hard, apparently. (In fact, the recommendation for   
   >> Vista is not to try to even upgrade XP, but do a clean install. Wow -   
   >> really advanced OS from Microsoft...doesn't want to dual boot with   
   >> ANYTHING including Microsoft products.)   
   >    
   > OK, 'only' the partition table on the boot partition & the 20Gig on    
   > disk2 will be altered.   
   > The first part poses the greatest chance of a prob as the 200Mg FAT    
   > 'runs' both XP installs...   
   >    
   >> You can, by the way, daisy chain boots using the Windows boot loader.   
   >> So you can use boot.ini to boot Linux. Just Google for the method. But   
   >> it's a lot easier to trust GRUB's ability to do it. GRUB isn't called the   
   >> GRand Unified Boot loader for nothing. It will boot any OS from any   
   >> location on any device it can find.   
   >    
   > My only concern was the first link to GRUB gave me the sense it was    
   > 'outdated'.  OTOH, as it's part of the Ubuntu install I'd prefer to let    
   > Ubuntu run the whole install rather than pick and choose ways to modify    
   > an OS I'm not familiar with.   
   >    
   > Thanks!   
      
   The Super Grub Boot Disk has helped me out of a few jams in the past:   
   http://users.bigpond.net.au/hermanzone/SuperGrubDiskPage.html   
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