Path: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.co   
   !border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!novia!amsnews11.chello.com!multik   
   bel.net!feed20.multikabel.net!newsfeed.freenet.de!border2.nntp.a   
   s.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!sn-xt-ams-06!sn-xt-ams-05!sn-am   
   !sn-feed-ams-03!sn-post-ams-02!sn-post-sjc-01!supernews.com!corp   
   supernews.com!not-for-mail   
   From: Harold Stevens    
   Newsgroups: alt.comp.freeware,alt.os.linux.ubuntu   
   Subject: Re: My ubuntu experience   
   Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 14:10:55 -0000   
   Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com   
   Message-ID:    
   X-spambot-trap: ** PLEASE SEE SIG ** (Ignoring Google or Anything-On-M$ Posts)   
   References: <1ct3eit29ohji$.1fdstpgp7b8w4.dlg@40tude.net> <51806   
   F1j92iaU1@mid.individual.net> <4iArh.32832$k74.3454@text.news.bl   
   eyonder.co.uk>  <519ohvF1jdrt4U1@mid.   
   ndividual.net>  <   
   oq04m$6uf$1@mail1.sbs.de>    
       
   <45b357fe$1@news01.wxnz.net>    
        
       
   User-Agent: slrn/0.9.8.0 (Linux)   
   X-Complaints-To: abuse@supernews.com   
   Lines: 69   
   Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.comp.freeware:548414 alt   
   os.linux.ubuntu:8785   
      
   In  Chris Game:   
      
   [Snip...]   
      
   > Open source/free software obsessives didn't like the current   
   > license conditions so refused to include Pine in distributions.   
      
   IMO your "obsessives" don't want themselves and their users facing possible   
   legal tarpits when they and UW can't/won't agree on GPL as a license. It is   
   essentially the same for Columbia's kermit. This isn't rocket science; when   
   civilized people have rules, civilized people play by the rules.   
      
   From this kermit manpage:   
      
                http://www.linuxcommand.org/man_pages/kermit1.html   
      
   we have:   
      
     LICENSE   
      
        C-Kermit has an unusual license, but a fair and sensible one since the   
        Kermit Project must support itself out of revenue: it's not a BSD   
        license, not GPL, not Artistic, not commercial, not shareware, not   
        freeware. It can be summed up like this: if you want C-Kermit for your   
        own use, you can download and use it without cost or license (but we'd   
        appreciate it if you would purchase the manual). But if you want to   
        sell C-Kermit or bundle it with a product or otherwise distribute it in   
        a commercial setting EXCEPT WITH AN OPEN-SOURCE OPERATING SYSTEM DIS-   
        TRIBUTION such as Linux, FreeBSD, NetBSD, or OpenBSD, you must license   
        it. To see the complete license, give the LICENSE command at the   
        prompt, or see the COPYING.TXT file distributed with C-Kermit 7.0 or   
        later, or download it from   
      
             ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/c-kermit/COPYING.TXT   
      
   Such restrictions may seem frivolous, but I don't see many folks upset with   
   Columbia's policy, or eager to see them in court about it.   
      
   Debian (and its derivatives like *ubuntu) play by "stricter" rules than say   
   SuSE, but you don't have use Pine, or Kermit, or even Debian altogether. If   
   you don't like some rules, or rules generally, that's *your choice*.   
      
   > My point was that to get even such a simple program working well on Linux,   
   > you have to apply various patches then compile from source. This is not   
   > the way to support customers in the 21st C.!   
      
   If you want that kind of "support" Novell and M$ got a recent deal for you.   
      
   IMO you're demonizing both UW Pine developers, and libre software, with one   
   very broad brush. Mark Crispin at UW Pine was immediately responsive when I   
   had bugs in a SuSE version of Pine. He walked me through a recompile of the   
   Pine source to a customized install in a couple of emails, free. This seems   
   to me a great way "to support customers" in any century. However, YMMV.   
      
   > Linux could have captured the desktop OS market by now   
      
   Tell it to Apple. They had by far the best UI available, and a POS like the   
   M$ toy GUI smeared on top of DOS still cleaned their clock. Go figure.   
      
   It's not about "desktops" or commercial hype. It's about a *legal title* to   
   products/services I obtain and use, proprietary, FOSS, or whatever.   
      
   JMO; YMMV...   
      
   --    
   Regards, Weird (Harold Stevens) * IMPORTANT EMAIL INFO FOLLOWS *   
   Pardon any bogus email addresses (wookie) in place for spambots.   
   Really, it's (wyrd) at airmail, dotted with net. DO NOT SPAM IT.   
   Kids jumping ship? Looking to hire an old-school type? Email me.   
   --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.0pr5   
    * Origin: Omicron Theta BBS (1:261/20)