TZUTC: 1100   
   MSGID: 521.fidointernet@3:633/384 26a2ce33   
   REPLY: 2:221/1.58@fidonet fabef47b   
   PID: Synchronet 3.17c-Win32  Feb 22 2020 MSC 1924   
   TID: SBBSecho 3.10-Win32 r3.151 Feb 22 2020 MSC 1924   
   CHRS: ASCII 1   
   -=> August Abolins wrote to Dennis Katsonis <=-   
      
    DK> This is a recipe for disaster as international relations   
    DK> is not beholden to these rogue actors.   
      
    AA> As far as I know, businesses are free to conduct business with   
    AA> other countries as they see fit. The gov't has tarrifs and   
    AA> duties that they impose.   
      
   They are, but when many companies decide to cause economic harm, it has   
   political and social ramifications, externalities.  Capitalists are generally   
   very poor when it comes to taking into account externalities.   
      
   The question isn't whether it is legal or not (it is), but whether they realise   
   it will have greater implications than simply virtue signallying and "feeling   
   good" about doing something.   
      
      
    AA>> It would be not different if a bunch of doctors got   
    AA>> organized on their own, call themselves Drs Without   
    AA>> Borders, and go help people with meds and medical   
    AA>> expertise.   
      
    DK> Offering medical assistance is completely different to   
    DK> enabling and supporting military activities.   
      
    AA> Well.. conducting medical services to a soldier is just as much   
    AA> as "enabling and supporting militarty activities". He gets   
    AA> treated, and back he goes to fight.   
      
    AA> Wrt, to Starlink, the internet service is just a comms system.   
    AA> What users/customers do with it is THEIR doing. Criminal and   
    AA> secret things get conducted over the internet all the time.   
      
    AA> A lament on privacy from 1972..   
      
    AA>  https://kolico.ca/mpg/TGC1972-privacy.mp4   
      
   In the West, especially the Anglosphere, we seem to think that the law is the   
   letter of the law, and not the spirit, and if "technically" you are within it,   
   then that is the end of it.  Russia won't buy such an argument.  They're not   
   stupid.   
      
    DK> Russians and Chinese won't see it the way you do, which is   
    DK> important because they both have nukes, and the ability to   
    DK> defeat the US in war should one start.  This is a time to   
    DK> tread carefully, to negotiate a peaceful solution, but if   
    DK> some random CEO is going to do something which starts a   
    DK> conflict, we're stuffed.   
      
    AA> It is hard to know if just the Russians and Chinese can defeat   
    AA> the US. No doubt all large countries have plenty of nuclear   
    AA> power to cause a lot of damage.  But a nuclear fight will   
    AA> affect the agressor and destroy the livelyhood of many   
    AA> surrounding places.   
      
    AA> Perhaps Putin underestimated the resourcefulness of private   
    AA> citizens of other countries to one-up him on severing typical   
    AA> comms systems and the internet in the country that he is   
    AA> blasting. The people who are either trapped in Ukraine or who   
    AA> choose to stay deserve to be in touch with the outside world   
    AA> and their loved ones.   
      
   I don't believe the mainstream media.  They have been claiming that the war has   
   been going badly since it started, yet Russia has taken over Ukraine at a very   
   fast rate.  They are painting a picture which would make you think that   
   Zelensky is one day away from marching down Red Square.  The mainstream   
   narrative MUST be false, and obviously is propaganda aimed at demoralising any   
   pro-Russian actors.   
      
   It reminds me of an apocryphal exchange in Germany at the end of WWII in   
   Berlin.   
      
   A: How did you know that you were losing the war?   
      
   B: Our victories were getting closer and closer.   
      
   The US lost in Vietnam, lost in Afghanistan.  The US doesn't really know how to   
   fight wars because they don't know what the telos, the endgame is.  How would   
   you defeat Putin?  Putin has clear objectives, what is the US going to do?    
   March into Ukraine from the West?  Not going to happen.  No NATO country, or   
   should that be, the citizenry of NATO countries are not willing to actually   
   fight and die in Ukraine.  The US can only offer indirect support and pretend   
   it isn't doing so (Russia and China aren't fooled by this).   
       
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