04 Jun 15 16:53, you wrote to me:   
      
    NB>>> What editor are you using?   
      
    ml>> ummm... really? peek at my control lines ;)   
      
    NB> So you're saying you're using the INTERNAL Golded+ editor?   
      
   yes... why not? it should work as advertised... no?? ;)   
      
    NB> If so, it's no wonder nothing is working for you. You have to use a   
    NB> real UTF-8 compatible external editor (like nano or vi) to write in   
    NB> UTF-8. Golded+ doesn't support UTF-8 whatsoever as far as I can tell.   
      
   it seems to convert posts to utf-8 for display because i see what i should see   
   as ""normal"" characters as utf-8 character groups...   
      
   to clarify: when i read a post, i see three or more characters when i should   
   see one glyph...   
      
   it gets worse when i reply, though... if i leave ""highascii"" characters   
   alone (by not traversing them when i write) they get converted... if i try to   
   revise a post with those characters in it, they get converted again...   
      
    ml>>>> in fact, no ALT-xxx codes are working :/   
      
    NB>>> That's odd. Are you sure you have UTF-8 enabled properly?   
      
    ml>> i didn't enable anything... this installation is in the same state it   
    ml>> comes from the factory in...   
      
    NB> What does "locale" output?   
      
   LANG=en_US.UTF-8   
   LANGUAGE=en_US   
   LC_CTYPE="en_US.UTF-8"   
   LC_NUMERIC="en_US.UTF-8"   
   LC_TIME="en_US.UTF-8"   
   LC_COLLATE="en_US.UTF-8"   
   LC_MONETARY="en_US.UTF-8"   
   LC_MESSAGES="en_US.UTF-8"   
   LC_PAPER="en_US.UTF-8"   
   LC_NAME="en_US.UTF-8"   
   LC_ADDRESS="en_US.UTF-8"   
   LC_TELEPHONE="en_US.UTF-8"   
   LC_MEASUREMENT="en_US.UTF-8"   
   LC_IDENTIFICATION="en_US.UTF-8"   
   LC_ALL=   
      
   AND i've also added something (once for testing) that sets LC_ALL=$LANG which   
   should be proper but... :sigh:   
      
    NB>>>>> Also, if you're interested, I can give you some advice as to   
    NB>>>>> how to change your "UTF-8 2" to "UTF-8 4" as well. :)   
      
    ml>>>> yeah, i'd also like to be able to see the single and double line   
    ml>>>> graphic characters as well as the various block ones, too...   
    ml>>>> apparently i don't have my translate stuff set up properly...   
    ml>>>> what i'm using is from the -dev repo in its entirity... i've   
    ml>>>> crossposted this to the golded echo so we can continue over   
    ml>>>> there :)   
      
    NB> If you use a 512 glyph UTF-8 font, you won't see the CP437 characters   
    NB> properly (they are mapped differently) unless you convert them with iconv.   
    NB> You can, however use a limited 256 glyph UTF-8 font that will display it   
    NB> properly with a couple "echo" lines set in your profile.   
      
   i know about the mapping thing... but i don't know how to set a 512 character   
   glyph set... i've tried numerous inkantashions but nothing has worked :(   
      
    NB>>> That would be two different beasts entirely. In order for me to   
    NB>>> see and use as much UTF-8 as possible on here, I have to use a   
    NB>>> 512 glyph font which remaps the ANSI characters differently. So I   
    NB>>> don't see any of those unless I convert them using iconv, or use   
    NB>>> a 256 glyph font, in which case you're not using or seeing as   
    NB>>> much UTF-8 as possible.   
      
    ml>> i see double or triple characters where ""high ascii"" should be   
    ml>> appearing... that tells me that this reader is translating them to   
    ml>> utf-8... if i don't see those, i see one or more question marks in   
    ml>> white circles...   
      
    NB> If it's Golded+ itself, it's not translating to UTF-8. Golded+ doesn't   
    NB> support UTF-8, which is why I've worked around it to use an external   
   editor   
    NB> that CAN support what I'm reading and writing. If anything, it's   
    NB> translating to garbage because you don't have your character translations   
    NB> setup correctly.   
      
   ummm... supposedly it does from what i've read... but the docs can easily be   
   quite wrong... i just know that it outputs proper single and double line   
   borders around its own frames and windows but the message content that should   
   also follow that path obviously does not... it is converted properly but then   
   the raw content is displayed instead of the converted character set...   
      
    NB>>> In either case, Golded itself won't display most of it properly   
    NB>>> when using UTF-8. It's only when you load up the temp message   
    NB>>> file in a UTF-8 compatible editor that it will display correctly.   
      
    ml>> that doesn't sound right... i shouldn't have to quote the post to see   
    ml>> it correctly...   
      
    NB> Welcome to the world of sysop readers. None of them support UTF-8   
   properly.   
      
   supposedly this is why there are others that are trying to advance the tech   
   that are working on such... i've always heard that golded has superior support   
   but i just don't see it right now... especially since i'm on an OS that   
   definitely supports it and in a terminal that also supports it...   
      
    NB> That's why using an external editor is the only way to accomplish the   
    NB> task. Golded+'s internal reader will not display UTF-8 properly. So   
    NB> when I quote the message and shell out to nano, I then see everything   
    NB> the way it's supposed to be seen.   
      
   i understand but that's like the chicken and the egg... kinda...   
      
    NB> As non-right as it sounds, thats our only current option unless you or   
    NB> someone else with the knowledge wants to create a new sysop reader/editor   
    NB> that does in fact support it. :)   
      
   as noted above, supposedly those knowledgable are working on it but...   
      
    ml>> how can i check what font is being used? this reader shows single and   
    ml>> double line borders itself just fine... just none of those in the   
    ml>> stats echo are showing properly... that's the main testing area...   
    ml>> when that stuff displays properly, then everything else should too...   
      
    NB> Sure, if you have everything mapped to CP437. However, it won't display   
    NB> properly if you try to convert everything to UTF-8. I tinkered with the   
    NB> character translations quite a bit in the past, but haven't looked at them   
    NB> for awhile now. I would have to jump back into the config and see where I   
    NB> left off with all that.   
      
   if i get things mapped to CP437, the internal single and double frame borders   
   won't render properly AFAIK... that also means changing the whole terminal   
   setup to support CP437 instead of the supposedly preferred utf-8...   
      
    NB> What I do remember, though.. is some Russian or Ukranian sysops   
    NB> netmailing me that my CHRS kludge was showing "UTF-8 4" but while   
    NB> using a 256 glyph font was producing CP437 messages. I had to switch   
    NB> to a 512 glyph font in order for it to be a "proper" UTF-8 encoded   
    NB> message. *shrug*   
      
   what are you using for your XLAT* lines in your golded confs? i'm using the   
   ""advanced"" conf from the repo with a few slight mods but nothing to the   
   XLAT* lines... that means that i'm also using the CHS files in the separate   
   charsets.conf file as generated by stas' script... i think i read that this is   
   what you are also using...   
      
   the main thing is that some are trying to push utf-8 in to fidonet... this   
   editor and MSGED are the two closest to being able to do this... TimED may   
   also be close since it is also now FOSS but i've not looked at it in its new   
   incarnation... someone has to step up if the network is to advance like some   
   say it has to if it is wanting to keep up...   
      
   so, what can you tell me about your "utf-8 4" settings? do you know what you   
   changed or set for that?? not that it will help with this incorrect rendering   
   mess :(   
      
   )\/(ark   
      
   ... There's a sucker born every minute!   
   ---   
    * Origin:  (1:3634/12.73)