Just a sample of the Echomail archive
Cooperative anarchy at its finest, still active today. Darkrealms is the Zone 1 Hub.
|    ESPOMEN    |    I have no idea    |    201 messages    |
[   << oldest   |   < older   |   list   |   newer >   |   newest >>   ]
|    Message 147 of 201    |
|    Rick Ekstrom to Judy Goodman    |
|    Today's meeting    |
|    20 Jul 13 12:42:28    |
   
   > Aside from the sleep situation (he was awakened too early   
      
   {snip}   
      
   > Do I remember correctly that E. is supposed to be a   
   > balanced, unsexist language?   
      
   Ah, not a misplaced "she" or "sxi" in the esperanto (second pass at your   
   paragraph), but a misplaced "he" in the backtranslation (third pass):   
      
   That was pure google. No idea why it backtranslated "I" as "he". In   
   esperanto, that should be "mi", and "me" is "min" (same -n ending as for an   
   object case noun).   
      
   > Is there no gerund form in E.?   
      
   Various things with -ing endings and so on in English can be substantially   
   changed in form in other languages, not just esperanto. Simple forms like   
   present tense and past tense can often be swapped word for word, but other   
   structures can require reducing to semantic content, then rebuilding according   
   to the rules and common styles of the target language.   
      
   Esperanto often prefers a simpler style than does English, for example   
      
    I'm going to the store.   
      
   COULD be literally, word for word translated as   
      
    *Mi estas iranta al la vendejo.   
      
   (or elsewhere "iranto" for the noun form of "going"),   
      
   but is FAR more likely to be   
      
    Mi iras al vendejo.   
      
   That is   
      
    *I go to store   
    (sell-place, from vendi, to sell, and -ejo, place).   
      
   In context, that's easily seen to be current, rather than some timeless   
   generalism.   
   If I did want to express that I often go to (the) store, I might use "kutime"   
   (often, typically).   
      
   Note that in English, I'd have been more likely to say   
    `selling place' than `sell-place',   
    but trying to include an esperanto particle to represent the   
    "-ing" would leave me with a tough choice of which form to   
    use and how to apply it. And clutter it up in a way that   
    E-o seldom does, without a good reason, like extra emphasis.   
    For example, if I've already told someone (perhaps by mobile   
    phone) than I'm on the way to the store, and the person on   
    the other end keeps asking me to go to the store, I might   
    for emphasis say "Mi ESTAS iranta NUN!". I AM on the way   
    NOW. (Or I could express "on the way" as "sur la vojo").   
      
   Also, note that in English, it's common to say "I'm going to the store" when   
   what is really meant, is "I wiil go to the store". Not so in Esperanto, where   
   the future tense is clearly shown in "Mi iros al vendejo". (It could easily   
   be "la vendejo", but I don't feel it's wrong to leave out the "la". Let your   
   developing feel for it be your guide, and remember that esperantists tend to   
   be very open to personal variations, at least where they don't break the   
   rules. And we all know how hard it is to learn any language, so we tend to be   
   tolerant even then).   
      
   I could stop there, and it would be good. Pick up each word as it comes up.   
      
   But when you're ready to see more of the typical esperanto pattern (no rush),   
   try this, to get lots of words and combining forms grouped neatly together:   
      
   Above I used iranta, that is iri (go) with the -ant- ending, followed by -a   
   (adjective marker). That -ant- is present tense, first person, ongoing action.   
      
   Remember the verb tense endings:   
      
    -is past   
    -as present   
    -os future   
      
   note the vowels, i, a, o.   
      
   Now try this   
      
    -inta (doing something, past)   
    -anta (doing something, present)   
    -onta (doing something, future)   
      
   Above are first person.   
      
   Below is transitive:   
      
    -ita (refers to the recipient of some action, past)   
    -ata (refers to the recipient of some action, present)   
    -ota (refers to the recipient of some action, future)   
      
   The difference is that the active agent has an N in the middle, but the   
   recipient of the action doesn't.   
      
   So,   
    hakanta viro   
    is "chopping man", that is a man currently involved in the   
    act of chopping (something).   
      
    hakita ligno   
    is "chopped wood", that is wood that has been chopped, some   
    time in the past.   
      
   The usual -a and -o endings apply for   
    -a adjective,   
    -o noun   
      
   for example   
      
    Ironto   
    Someone or something which will perform an act of going.   
      
    Mi estas la ironto   
    I'm the one who will be going.   
      
   Verbs can be combined, and parts of speech changed to fit, for more complex   
   concepts:   
      
    I was about-to-go.   
    Mi estis ironta.   
      
   Once you get the feel for it, that can cover a huge range of stuff, with all   
   sorts of subtle shades of meaning, and when you'd use a gerund in english,   
   there'll be a way to neatly cover the idea in esperanto.   
      
   I can't resist, try a triple tense:   
      
    La hakota ligno estas perdita.   
      
   The wood which will be chopped is lost (having been lost).   
      
   Okay -- optional exercise for the student: Show me your own sample sentence in   
   english using a gerund, and translate it to esperanto, not necessarily word   
   for word.   
      
   --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Dada-1   
    * Origin: Prism bbs (1:261/38)   
|
[   << oldest   |   < older   |   list   |   newer >   |   newest >>   ]
(c) 1994, bbs@darkrealms.ca