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|    ENGLISH_TUTOR    |    English Tutoring for Students of the Eng    |    4,347 messages    |
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|    Message 4,191 of 4,347    |
|    Alexander Koryagin to Gleb Hlebov    |
|    Strange a bit    |
|    27 Sep 24 16:04:10    |
      MSGID: 2:221/6.0 66f6ad4a       REPLY: 2:5023/24.4222 66f67274       PID: SmapiNNTPd/Linux/IPv6 kco 20240925       NOTE: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101       Thunderbird/31.7.0       CHRS: CP866 2       TZUTC: 0300       TID: hpt/lnx 1.9 2024-03-02              Hi, Gleb Hlebov!       I read your message from 27.09.2024 08:53               AK>>> If Miln had put it with a capital first letter it was rather a        AK>>> name.        GH>> It seems at first it was a denotation and a name at the same time.        GH>> The writer was introducing "The Piglet" as an "object" in the        GH>> story in the course of 2-3 sentences, and then it actually settled        GH>> in as a personal name.              However the reason could be the same as for "the King" ;-)               GH> Have you heard an idiom "Keeping up with the Joneses"?        GH> As I've mentioned earlier, English articles are quite an        GH> interesting subject to study per se, and speaking of it in regard        GH> to its usage with names and proper nouns, here's some info that        GH> might help us:               GH> =====        GH> More generally, using an article before a proper noun that doesn't        GH> have one built into it (as the United States and the Rolling Stones        GH> do) is one example of using a proper noun as a countable noun.               GH> There are several reasons why we might do that normally. One is to        GH> say something like "there are three Johns in the group",        GH> meaning "there are three people called John in the group".              It is not an example of article using -- No article. Although... even a fist       can serve as zero when we use fingers to tell the result of 5 minus 5. ;-)               GH> Another is to add distance to the identification; "I have a John        GH> Smith on the line" is a common expression for "I have someone on        GH> the line, who tells me he is John Smith, and that is all that is        GH> known about him". A similar is to report, e.g. "One John Smith is        GH> accused of the crime", emphasising that we have no further        GH> identifying details at present, and hence we are not stating        GH> precisely which person of that name is the subject of the sentence.              Probably there is no similar name in Russian. Although we can say that in       Russia there many Putins (people with "Putin" as a second name). Can you       imagine how feels a teacher when she is saying "Putin, stop babbling!" ;-)               GH> Another is to use a proper noun as an example of particular traits        GH> that could also be held by others (a type of synecdoche). "The next        GH> Bob Dylan" (a singer-songwriter from the folk scene who will repeat        GH> Dylan's success), "He's an Einstein" (he's very smart), "All        GH> Mozarts have their Salieris" (not really true even for Mozart and        GH> Salieri, but let's say we believed the film Amadeus was accurate).              Yeah, some politicians, for instance, can act as a Napoleon.               GH> Another, almost inverse to this, is to speak of the person or thing        GH> signified by the proper noun at a particular time, or from a        GH> particular perspective: "The London of a hundred years ago was a        GH> notoriously unhealthy place", "The John you know is not the John I        GH> know" (that could also mean you are talking of a literally        GH> different person, depending on context).        GH> The above are reasonably standard, though figurative.              Well, it is not very unusual. We can say for instance about the Moscow of 193s.               GH> Another common variation is to jokingly make use of these forms,        GH> when one normally would not. If talking of a friend, we would        GH> generally use their name as a proper noun, because that's how names        GH> work in English, but since every person called George is "a        GH> George", and so on the form is logically correct, though not        GH> strictly good English. To use it of a friend could suggest that you        GH> have gotten as far as knowing it's a George, but not which one, or        GH> that George's are all alike and you've hence found someone who will        GH> have all the George-like qualities that George has. Both obviously        GH> are not sensible, but therein is the joke. Another variant would be        GH> if you were looking for George, and then spotted him. Again "ah,        GH> there's a George" would suggest that you'd were just looking for        GH> Georges generally, which again is not sensible, hence the joke.              Probably if we add "a" to the name we lift the person status. This person (his       name) becomes like a benchmark.               GH> All of these last cases are examples of deliberately bad English,        GH> used as a joke, rather than something that would normally be        GH> considered correct.              It seems to me they are not bad English, but they reflect its flexibility.               GH> [A completely different case is when there's a word that is the        GH> same as a proper noun, but isn't a proper noun, of which some slang        GH> cases started as a proper noun and are hence sometimes        GH> capitalised.]              In short "the Piglet" is in capital may be for this reason -- it was the only       little swine in this novel. ;-) A capital letter was rewarded to him probably       because they called him "piglet", and it became a proper name. It was the only       piglet in the story. In Russia we have a fairy-tale about three piglets and a       wolf. In our case every piglet has a personal name. ;)              Bye, Gleb!       Alexander Koryagin       english_tutor 2024              ---         * Origin: nntp://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/6.0)       SEEN-BY: 10/0 1 90/1 102/401 103/1 705 105/81 106/201 124/5016 129/305       SEEN-BY: 153/757 7715 154/10 214/22 218/0 1 215 601 700 720 840 850       SEEN-BY: 218/860 870 880 930 221/1 6 360 226/30 227/114 229/110 114       SEEN-BY: 229/206 300 317 426 428 470 664 700 240/1120 266/512 282/1038       SEEN-BY: 291/111 301/1 113 320/219 322/757 335/364 341/66 234 342/200       SEEN-BY: 396/45 460/58 712/848 5020/400 1042 5075/35       PATH: 221/6 301/1 218/700 229/426           |
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