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   ENGLISH_TUTOR      English Tutoring for Students of the Eng      4,347 messages   

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   Message 4,191 of 4,347   
   Alexander Koryagin to Gleb Hlebov   
   Strange a bit   
   27 Sep 24 16:04:10   
   
   MSGID: 2:221/6.0 66f6ad4a   
   REPLY: 2:5023/24.4222 66f67274   
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   TID: hpt/lnx 1.9 2024-03-02   
      
   Hi, Gleb Hlebov!   
   I read your message from 27.09.2024 08:53   
      
    AK>>> If Miln had put it with a capital first letter it was rather a   
    AK>>> name.   
    GH>> It seems at first it was a denotation and a name at the same time.   
    GH>> The writer was introducing "The Piglet" as an "object" in the   
    GH>> story in the course of 2-3 sentences, and then it actually settled   
    GH>> in as a personal name.   
      
   However the reason could be the same as for "the King" ;-)   
      
    GH> Have you heard an idiom "Keeping up with the Joneses"?   
    GH> As I've mentioned earlier, English articles are quite an   
    GH> interesting subject to study per se, and speaking of it in regard   
    GH> to its usage with names and proper nouns, here's some info that   
    GH> might help us:   
      
    GH> =====   
    GH> More generally, using an article before a proper noun that doesn't   
    GH> have one built into it (as the United States and the Rolling Stones   
    GH> do) is one example of using a proper noun as a countable noun.   
      
    GH> There are several reasons why we might do that normally. One is to   
    GH> say something like "there are three Johns in the group",   
    GH> meaning "there are three people called John in the group".   
      
   It is not an example of article using -- No article. Although... even a fist   
   can serve as zero when we use fingers to tell the result of 5 minus 5. ;-)   
      
    GH> Another is to add distance to the identification; "I have a John   
    GH> Smith on the line" is a common expression for "I have someone on   
    GH> the line, who tells me he is John Smith, and that is all that is   
    GH> known about him". A similar is to report, e.g. "One John Smith is   
    GH> accused of the crime", emphasising that we have no further   
    GH> identifying details at present, and hence we are not stating   
    GH> precisely which person of that name is the subject of the sentence.   
      
   Probably there is no similar name in Russian. Although we can say that in   
   Russia there many Putins (people with "Putin" as a second name). Can you   
   imagine how feels a teacher when she is saying "Putin, stop babbling!" ;-)   
      
    GH> Another is to use a proper noun as an example of particular traits   
    GH> that could also be held by others (a type of synecdoche). "The next   
    GH> Bob Dylan" (a singer-songwriter from the folk scene who will repeat   
    GH> Dylan's success), "He's an Einstein" (he's very smart), "All   
    GH> Mozarts have their Salieris" (not really true even for Mozart and   
    GH> Salieri, but let's say we believed the film Amadeus was accurate).   
      
   Yeah, some politicians, for instance, can act as a Napoleon.   
      
    GH> Another, almost inverse to this, is to speak of the person or thing   
    GH> signified by the proper noun at a particular time, or from a   
    GH> particular perspective: "The London of a hundred years ago was a   
    GH> notoriously unhealthy place", "The John you know is not the John I   
    GH> know" (that could also mean you are talking of a literally   
    GH> different person, depending on context).   
    GH> The above are reasonably standard, though figurative.   
      
   Well, it is not very unusual. We can say for instance about the Moscow of 193s.   
      
    GH> Another common variation is to jokingly make use of these forms,   
    GH> when one normally would not. If talking of a friend, we would   
    GH> generally use their name as a proper noun, because that's how names   
    GH> work in English, but since every person called George is "a   
    GH> George", and so on the form is logically correct, though not   
    GH> strictly good English. To use it of a friend could suggest that you   
    GH> have gotten as far as knowing it's a George, but not which one, or   
    GH> that George's are all alike and you've hence found someone who will   
    GH> have all the George-like qualities that George has. Both obviously   
    GH> are not sensible, but therein is the joke. Another variant would be   
    GH> if you were looking for George, and then spotted him. Again "ah,   
    GH> there's a George" would suggest that you'd were just looking for   
    GH> Georges generally, which again is not sensible, hence the joke.   
      
   Probably if we add "a" to the name we lift the person status. This person (his   
   name) becomes like a benchmark.   
      
    GH> All of these last cases are examples of deliberately bad English,   
    GH> used as a joke, rather than something that would normally be   
    GH> considered correct.   
      
   It seems to me they are not bad English, but they reflect its flexibility.   
      
    GH> [A completely different case is when there's a word that is the   
    GH> same as a proper noun, but isn't a proper noun, of which some slang   
    GH> cases started as a proper noun and are hence sometimes   
    GH> capitalised.]   
      
   In short "the Piglet" is in capital may be for this reason -- it was the only   
   little swine in this novel. ;-) A capital letter was rewarded to him probably   
   because they called him "piglet", and it became a proper name. It was the only   
   piglet in the story. In Russia we have a fairy-tale about three piglets and a   
   wolf. In our case every piglet has a personal name. ;)   
      
   Bye, Gleb!   
   Alexander Koryagin   
   english_tutor 2024   
      
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