MSGID: 1:153/716.0 c72cd891   
   REPLY: 2:221/6.0 5c51bdd0   
   CHRS: IBMPC 2   
   Hi, Anton!  Recently you wrote in a message to Ardith Hinton:   
      
    AH>  If the authors of these reports made an error by trying   
    AH>  to put two grammatical constructions together, I don't   
    AH>  see it as particularly serious...   
      
    AS>  I wonder why it is an error.   
      
      
             I'm not completely convinced it is.  That's why I said "if"....  :-)   
      
      
      
    AS>  A good old prescriptivist explanation would satisfy me,   
    AS>  for prescriptivists consider language an embodiment of   
    AS>  logical rules,   
      
      
             IMHO language *is* an embodiment of logical rules, and the challenge   
   for today's grammarian/linguists is to figure out what native speakers do more   
   or less intuitively... why they do it that way... and how best to organize it.   
   In theory, they can thus identify patterns & make recommendations as to how we   
   can use the language more efficiently.  In practice, the system doesn't always   
   work as advertised after it has trickled down to the elementary level &/or the   
   university student from SomePlace Else may have to rely on USAian dictionaries   
   to identify the differences between e.g. UK & US conventions because the other   
   major players seem to ignore what folks from the wrong side of the tracks do &   
   what's been going on in the colonies & ex-colonies for over a century....  :-Q   
      
      
      
    AS>  whereas descriptivist think rules are but crude   
    AS>  formulations for fuzzy volatile tendencies in language.   
      
      
             It's easy to think that if enough people make the same error it will   
   be accepted as standard English eventually.  But now that the vast majority of   
   dictionaries take the descriptive approach I have learned to appreciate it.  I   
   think you & I are both quite capable of deciding for ourselves what do when we   
   have enough of the right information... and there's more information available   
   to readers who understand what's going on.  If various spellings & definitions   
   are listed in a certain way or are accompanied by usage notes &/or flags which   
   enable you to do exactly that, I reckon you've outgrown Miss Stickler....  ;-)   
      
      
      
    AS>  When aksked about the difference of "honor" from "right",   
    AS>  "courage", "permission", and "privilege", he replied:   
      
      
             You lost me there.  Who's "he"?   
      
      
      
    >  Possibly because all those verbs are descriptive, stating   
    >  ability or permission to report (picture theory of   
    >  language, Wittgenstein's TLP), while "honor" is part of the   
    >  sentence that is Speech Act per se ?   
      
      
             Hmm.  What I was thinking was more along the lines that an honour or   
   privilege, in this context, is bestowed upon a person by virtue of having been   
   elected or appointed to do a specific job.  If this individual has the courage   
   &/or the intelligence &/or or the common sense &/or the presence of mind to do   
   what's best in a given situation I reckon such characteritics are innate.  :-)   
      
      
      
    AH>  Yes, I have the courage to share my thoughts in the E_T   
    AH>  echo when I see that somebody out there wants to learn   
    AH>  more about my native language.   
      
    AS>  And I thank you therefor.  Observe it cannot be "the   
    AS>  courage of sharing", for courage is a prerequisite for   
    AS>  the ability to share.   
      
      
             I like your use of the word "prerequisite" there.  WRT the law it is   
   often said (in North America, at least) "You have the right to remain silent."   
   It could be argued that one person can encourage another or that people have a   
   right to xxx whether or not the government approves.  Either way I see this as   
   different from a situation in which it is considered Anton's duty to propose a   
   toast to the bride because he's her uncle or to speak on behalf of the members   
   of a club because nobody else volunteered to assume the role of president.  We   
   could say the president has the responsibility of acting as representative, of   
   deciding when to hold the next meeting, of organizing the meeting agenda, etc.   
   OTOH the bride & groom may decide to have a less formal wedding... the bride's   
   uncle may prefer to hide under a rock... or there may be no volunteers for the   
   position the club needs to fill.  I have the courage of my convictions in that   
   while other people helped me to realize teaching was my calling I was doing it   
   when I was in kindergarten, or so my mother told me a few decades later.  :-))   
      
      
      
      
   --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+   
    * Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)   
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