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|    ENGLISH_TUTOR    |    English Tutoring for Students of the Eng    |    4,347 messages    |
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|    Message 2,010 of 4,347    |
|    Ardith Hinton to alexander koryagin    |
|    King, Sherlock Holmes and a verb ;)    |
|    11 Jun 16 22:52:15    |
      Hi, Alexander! Recently you wrote in a message to All:              ak> In a novel "A SCANDAL IN BOHEMIA" about Sherlock Holmes, by Sir       ak> Arthur Conan Doyle, I've read this:              ak> =========Beginning of the citation==============       ak> "On the contrary, my dear sir," cried the King; "nothing       ak> could be more successful. I know that her word is inviolate. The       ak> photograph is now as safe as if it were in the fire."       ak> "I am glad to hear your Majesty say so."       ak> "I am immensely indebted to you. Pray tell me in what way       ak> I can reward you. This ring-" He slipped an emerald snake ring       ak> from his finger and held it out upon the palm of his hand.       ak> "Your Majesty has something which I should value even more       ak> highly," said Holmes.              ak> =========The end of the citation================                     ak> It seems something strange:              ak> 1. I am glad to hear your Majesty _say_ so. (I'd write "says or       ak> said")                      How about "I'm glad to hear you say so, Mr. President?" or "I'm glad       to hear you, i.e. Alexander Koryagin, or [him/her/it/them] say so?"               When in doubt I often find it helpful to use substitute words and/or       change the word order. The infinitive may be confusing there, but IMHO Holmes       can be trusted to speak English correctly in view of the time & place.... ;-)               Another example, which Dallas & I observed in the TV news just after       we'd received your message: an old brick building in Vancouver was demolished       because it was considered to be unsafe & the necessary repairs would have been       prohibitively expensive. The owner of the property was hoping to sell it to a       developer. Over a year has now elapsed & no prospective buyers have appeared.       Meanwhile, the rubble which was not properly dealt with has attracted hundreds       of rats. Scientists from a local university caught fifteen of them in one day       with just one trap, and they're having a great time determining whether or not       we have cause for concern about a 21st century equivalent of the Black Plague.       The reason I am relating this long & sordid tale, however, pertains to the use       of a similar grammatical construction. When residents of the neighbourhood...       i.e. folks who are almost certainly at a much lower level on the socioeconomic       spectrum than the hero of Sir Arthur's tales... are asked for their opinion on       the subject a typical response is "I'd like to see the city clean it up & send       the bill to the owner." IOW this usage still persists on the Wet Coast of BC,       thousands of miles away & a century later, even among folks who are neither as       intelligent nor as well-educated as the fictional person in your example. :-)                            ak> 2. Your Majesty _has_ something...                      Makes sense to me. I have something, you (singular) have something,       he/she/it has something. We have something, you (plural) have something, they       have something. If Holmes wasn't asking a favour it would be quite acceptable       to use "Sir" after the initial "Your Majesty"... or it would be nowadays. But       21st century monarchs say things like "my husband & I" whereas in your example       we are dealing with a more formal era. It seems to me "Your Majesty" is being       treated grammatically as third person singular... or maybe the vocative case I       heard about in Latin class is still used in English, but nobody ever explained       it to me that way! Once again about all I can add is that I've run across the       same usage in various books which originated during the past 400+ years. :-))                            ak> It means that in the first sentence it must be "says"?                      No, but I'm still wondering whether the infinitive may be the source       of confusion. The infinitive in English can perform various roles... e.g.               To be, or not to be: That is the question. (noun)               To err is human; to forgive, divine. (adjective)                     And to make matters worse, "to" may be omitted on occasion... e.g.               I'd like to dance and tap my feet        But they won't keep in rhythm              [This is a song. It's not formal English. The composer(s) wanted the line to       scan with the correct number of syllables... and I agree with their decision.]                                   --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+        * Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)    |
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