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   ENGLISH_TUTOR      English Tutoring for Students of the Eng      4,347 messages   

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   Message 1,773 of 4,347   
   Ardith Hinton to alexander koryagin   
   catt and dog   
   11 Dec 14 23:36:46   
   
   Hi, Alexander!  Recently you wrote in a message to All:   
      
    ak>  http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/30205410   
    ak>  "Around three percent of the Swiss secretly eat cat   
    ak>  or dog," said Tomi Tomek, founder and president of   
    ak>  animal protection group SOS Chats Noiraigue."   
      
      
              Okay. I've eaten caribou (AKA reindeer) and bison (AKA buffalo) and   
   enjoyed both.  I used the singular without the article there too.  But neither   
   of these animals is something I'd expect to find in a neighbour's back yard...   
   my personal experience with live specimens is very limited, so I'm thinking in   
   terms of meat on the plate.  This is where what the Norman French did may be a   
   help or a hindrance depending on one's POV.  The *number of animals in a herd*   
   is countable, while *meat* is usually measured by weight.  IMHO it's easier to   
   grasp the concept when the same noun isn't forced to do double duty.   
      
      
              Here are some more examples... together with my apologies to others   
   who may think they sound like those dreaded "word problems" in math class:   
      
               Farmer Brown has a herd of cattle.  Mrs. Brown looks in the   
               freezer one day & realizes she has less meat than she would   
               like to have with the Christmas holiday season approaching.   
               [Time passes].  Now they have more beef & fewer cattle.   
      
               Andy Longrifle is an expert hunter.  When his wife looks in   
               the freezer... [etc.].  Now this family has more venison in   
               the freezer, while there are fewer deer in a nearby forest.   
      
      
              Although the above examples may confuse some folks, I must add that   
   native speakers don't always get such things right.  Many have difficulty with   
   "less" vs. "fewer" where a Russian would have such things down pat & ask about   
   my use of articles.  Different people make different errors, that's all.  :-))   
      
      
      
    ak>  I would say:   
    ak>  "Around three percent of the Swiss secretly eat cats or dogs,"   
      
      
              Maybe, if these people are catching their own food... but most city   
   folks don't pluralize "chicken" or "turkey" or "goose" or "duck" when they are   
   talking about what meat they eat any more than they do with "pork" or "bacon".   
   Occasionally I do hear from a friend who's planning a holiday dinner that s/he   
   isn't sure whether to buy the largest turkey s/he can find or two medium-sized   
   turkeys, and professional chefs may be called upon to make such decisions as a   
   matter of course.  The latter, however, don't discuss their work with me.  :-)   
      
      
      
    ak>  or at least:   
    ak>  "Around three percent of the Swiss secretly eat the cat or dog,"   
      
      
              Which ones... the cat & dog that live in the house that Jack built?   
   My first thought as a native speaker of English is that we employ the definite   
   article to distinguish between individuals.  Yes, I have heard people say "the   
   dog is man's best friend" too.  Either way I understand that the speaker cares   
   about these animals & regards the dog as a valuable working animal and/or as a   
   cherished family pet.  OTOH, people who eat the meat of cats & dogs might well   
   keep quiet about it... they know others will react by saying (e.g.) "How could   
   you think of eating my friend Cleo the Cat, unless you've experienced a world-   
   class disaster I don't know about & can't honestly find anything else to eat?"   
   Over the years Dallas & I have met various young farmers who assign names like   
   "T-Bone" to cattle, so as to remind themselves not to get emotionally attached   
   to critters which will end up on the dinner table or the auction block.  Other   
   folks assign to their feline & canine companions names which reflect their own   
   interests too.  But in many such cases I hear names of historical/mythological   
   personages & characters from books or movies.  I even hear musical terms.  :-)   
      
      
      
      
   --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+   
    * Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)   

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