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|    ENGLISH_TUTOR    |    English Tutoring for Students of the Eng    |    4,347 messages    |
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|    Message 1,773 of 4,347    |
|    Ardith Hinton to alexander koryagin    |
|    catt and dog    |
|    11 Dec 14 23:36:46    |
      Hi, Alexander! Recently you wrote in a message to All:               ak> http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/30205410        ak> "Around three percent of the Swiss secretly eat cat        ak> or dog," said Tomi Tomek, founder and president of        ak> animal protection group SOS Chats Noiraigue."                      Okay. I've eaten caribou (AKA reindeer) and bison (AKA buffalo) and       enjoyed both. I used the singular without the article there too. But neither       of these animals is something I'd expect to find in a neighbour's back yard...       my personal experience with live specimens is very limited, so I'm thinking in       terms of meat on the plate. This is where what the Norman French did may be a       help or a hindrance depending on one's POV. The *number of animals in a herd*       is countable, while *meat* is usually measured by weight. IMHO it's easier to       grasp the concept when the same noun isn't forced to do double duty.                      Here are some more examples... together with my apologies to others       who may think they sound like those dreaded "word problems" in math class:               Farmer Brown has a herd of cattle. Mrs. Brown looks in the        freezer one day & realizes she has less meat than she would        like to have with the Christmas holiday season approaching.        [Time passes]. Now they have more beef & fewer cattle.               Andy Longrifle is an expert hunter. When his wife looks in        the freezer... [etc.]. Now this family has more venison in        the freezer, while there are fewer deer in a nearby forest.                      Although the above examples may confuse some folks, I must add that       native speakers don't always get such things right. Many have difficulty with       "less" vs. "fewer" where a Russian would have such things down pat & ask about       my use of articles. Different people make different errors, that's all. :-))                             ak> I would say:        ak> "Around three percent of the Swiss secretly eat cats or dogs,"                      Maybe, if these people are catching their own food... but most city       folks don't pluralize "chicken" or "turkey" or "goose" or "duck" when they are       talking about what meat they eat any more than they do with "pork" or "bacon".       Occasionally I do hear from a friend who's planning a holiday dinner that s/he       isn't sure whether to buy the largest turkey s/he can find or two medium-sized       turkeys, and professional chefs may be called upon to make such decisions as a       matter of course. The latter, however, don't discuss their work with me. :-)                             ak> or at least:        ak> "Around three percent of the Swiss secretly eat the cat or dog,"                      Which ones... the cat & dog that live in the house that Jack built?       My first thought as a native speaker of English is that we employ the definite       article to distinguish between individuals. Yes, I have heard people say "the       dog is man's best friend" too. Either way I understand that the speaker cares       about these animals & regards the dog as a valuable working animal and/or as a       cherished family pet. OTOH, people who eat the meat of cats & dogs might well       keep quiet about it... they know others will react by saying (e.g.) "How could       you think of eating my friend Cleo the Cat, unless you've experienced a world-       class disaster I don't know about & can't honestly find anything else to eat?"       Over the years Dallas & I have met various young farmers who assign names like       "T-Bone" to cattle, so as to remind themselves not to get emotionally attached       to critters which will end up on the dinner table or the auction block. Other       folks assign to their feline & canine companions names which reflect their own       interests too. But in many such cases I hear names of historical/mythological       personages & characters from books or movies. I even hear musical terms. :-)                                   --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+        * Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)    |
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