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   ENGLISH_TUTOR      English Tutoring for Students of the Eng      4,347 messages   

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   Message 1,584 of 4,347   
   Ardith Hinton to alexander koryagin   
   Articles   
   25 Jan 13 23:46:13   
   
   Hi, Alexander!  Recently you wrote in a message to Ardith Hinton:   
      
   AH>  native speakers of other languages may have difficulty   
   AH>  figuring out where to use articles in English & where   
   AH>  not to.  The French use articles where we don't.  The   
   AH>  Russians use them even more sparingly than we do, and   
   AH>  the rules are different... or so I understand.   
      
   ak>  I meant that a countable noun should not be naked,   
   ak>  without a determinator (article or pronoun).   
      
      
               Thanks for explaining what you mean by "determinator".  I found it   
   listed under "determinate" and/or "determiner" (being persnickety here in case   
   anyone else wants to look it up)... but as with articles, the concept seems to   
   defy description & the easiest way to get it across is by example.  Articles &   
   possessive pronouns are determiners.  "This" or "that" may be determiners when   
   we use these words to distinguish between one item & a similar item.  A number   
   or a word suggesting an approximation thereof, e.g. "several" or "many", falls   
   into the same category.  Seems to me we're dealing with countable objects.  In   
   English we specify whose elbow we're touching whether or not it's our own, and   
   ... noting WRT the anniversary of the War of 1812 a translation of the name of   
   a certain cathedral in Russia... English-speaking Christians describe Jesus as   
   "the Savio(u)r" because from their POV he has a special significance.   
      
               As to whether a countable noun needs a determiner... yes, I reckon   
   the majority of phrases I offered earlier pertained to uncountable nouns.  But   
   I'm reminded that while people say "See you in court!" we have law courts in a   
   city of this size which according to their official title are plural.  And I'm   
   reminded too that whereas I'd say So-and-So is in hospital I know at least one   
   individual who would say So-and-So is in *the* hospital.  I wasn't planning to   
   mention such complications... but since you asked, she's a high school dropout   
   from a small town where there was probably only one hospital years ago.  AFAIC   
   hospitals are countable.  In the greater Vancouver area... which included well   
   over a million people when last I heard... we have a number of hospitals.  And   
   in this household alone, BTW, we have four types of flour as I speak.  What is   
   a countable noun & what isn't?  Maybe there's no simple answer after all.  ;-)   
      
      
      
   ak>  I found it, it is like an idiomatic phrase:   
   ak>  http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/plan_1?q=plan   
   ak>  =========Beginning of the citation==============   
   ak>  go according to plan   
   ak>  to happen in the way you intend   
   ak>  Events of this type rarely go according to plan.   
   ak>  =========The end of the citation================   
      
      
               Uh-huh.  Just as I thought....  :-)   
      
      
      
   ak>  I other words it is an exception from rules or a legal   
   ak>  error. ;-)   
      
      
               Well, that's one way to put it... [chuckle].   
      
               If you read your last sentence again, I think you may find a typo.   
   Now... should one say "rules" or "the rules" in this context?  I'm inclined to   
   say "the rules" because I'm thinking of a fairly standard set of "rules" which   
   native speakers of English are taught in the primary grades.  In some ways you   
   have an advantage over native speakers because you learned this language after   
   attaining the age of reason.  You've probably noticed that the BBC news, e.g.,   
   doesn't always conform to what you've been taught.  But unlike native speakers   
   you have easy access to charts & diagrams explaining how such things allegedly   
   work for those who seem capable of tackling them on a more grownup level.  :-)   
      
      
      
      
   --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+   
    * Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)   

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