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|    ENGLISH_TUTOR    |    English Tutoring for Students of the Eng    |    4,347 messages    |
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|    Message 1,584 of 4,347    |
|    Ardith Hinton to alexander koryagin    |
|    Articles    |
|    25 Jan 13 23:46:13    |
      Hi, Alexander! Recently you wrote in a message to Ardith Hinton:              AH> native speakers of other languages may have difficulty       AH> figuring out where to use articles in English & where       AH> not to. The French use articles where we don't. The       AH> Russians use them even more sparingly than we do, and       AH> the rules are different... or so I understand.              ak> I meant that a countable noun should not be naked,       ak> without a determinator (article or pronoun).                      Thanks for explaining what you mean by "determinator". I found it       listed under "determinate" and/or "determiner" (being persnickety here in case       anyone else wants to look it up)... but as with articles, the concept seems to       defy description & the easiest way to get it across is by example. Articles &       possessive pronouns are determiners. "This" or "that" may be determiners when       we use these words to distinguish between one item & a similar item. A number       or a word suggesting an approximation thereof, e.g. "several" or "many", falls       into the same category. Seems to me we're dealing with countable objects. In       English we specify whose elbow we're touching whether or not it's our own, and       ... noting WRT the anniversary of the War of 1812 a translation of the name of       a certain cathedral in Russia... English-speaking Christians describe Jesus as       "the Savio(u)r" because from their POV he has a special significance.               As to whether a countable noun needs a determiner... yes, I reckon       the majority of phrases I offered earlier pertained to uncountable nouns. But       I'm reminded that while people say "See you in court!" we have law courts in a       city of this size which according to their official title are plural. And I'm       reminded too that whereas I'd say So-and-So is in hospital I know at least one       individual who would say So-and-So is in *the* hospital. I wasn't planning to       mention such complications... but since you asked, she's a high school dropout       from a small town where there was probably only one hospital years ago. AFAIC       hospitals are countable. In the greater Vancouver area... which included well       over a million people when last I heard... we have a number of hospitals. And       in this household alone, BTW, we have four types of flour as I speak. What is       a countable noun & what isn't? Maybe there's no simple answer after all. ;-)                            ak> I found it, it is like an idiomatic phrase:       ak> http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/plan_1?q=plan       ak> =========Beginning of the citation==============       ak> go according to plan       ak> to happen in the way you intend       ak> Events of this type rarely go according to plan.       ak> =========The end of the citation================                      Uh-huh. Just as I thought.... :-)                            ak> I other words it is an exception from rules or a legal       ak> error. ;-)                      Well, that's one way to put it... [chuckle].               If you read your last sentence again, I think you may find a typo.       Now... should one say "rules" or "the rules" in this context? I'm inclined to       say "the rules" because I'm thinking of a fairly standard set of "rules" which       native speakers of English are taught in the primary grades. In some ways you       have an advantage over native speakers because you learned this language after       attaining the age of reason. You've probably noticed that the BBC news, e.g.,       doesn't always conform to what you've been taught. But unlike native speakers       you have easy access to charts & diagrams explaining how such things allegedly       work for those who seem capable of tackling them on a more grownup level. :-)                                   --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+        * Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)    |
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