716.0_2c63d8c2@fidonet.org>   
   From: "alexander koryagin"    
      
   F2EP   
   Hi, Ardith Hinton! How are you?   
   on Sunday, 05 of January, I read your message to alexander koryagin   
   about "3xHa!"   
      
    AH>> As a student I was limited to what could be done with  a  standard   
    AH>> typewriter.  I was in very much the same position we're in, AAMOF,   
    AH>> when we are discussing English usage via Fidonet... [chuckle].   
      
    ak>> I believe that punctuation must be for the standard text only.   
      
    AH> It certainly is useful to be able to communicate in  writing,  with   
    AH> or without access to a variety of fonts,  in other situations  too.   
    AH> The authors of many grammar books seem unaware that not all  of  us   
    AH> have word processors...  and although a 1963  high  school  grammar   
    AH> text confirmed what I thought I remembered about how to  deal  with   
    AH> such things I found a few glossed over or left out just  as  I  did   
    AH> when I consulted Anne Stilman's 1997 publication.   
      
      
    AH> Using an example of my own invention & expanding on the former:   
      
    AH> "The Hunting of the Snark",  from _The  Collected  Works  of  Lewis   
   Carroll_,   
    AH>  is a poem which I enjoyed reading many years ago.   
      
    AH> If you're referring to something which  has  been  published  under   
    AH> separate cover...  e.g.  a  book  or  periodical...  the  title  is   
    AH> underlined.  I know I'm breaking the rules when I  use  upper  case   
    AH> letters in Fidonet.  I do this because I can't fit  two  characters   
    AH> into one space & it's easy to find the title later.... :-)   
      
      I have not understood which Fidonet rule you broke.  A  fidonet  user   
   cannot use upper case (capitals) letters? Really?   
      
    AH> If you're referring to a poem, a short story, a news article,  etc.   
    AH> which forms part of a larger work the title  is  put  in  quotation   
    AH> marks.   
      
      In other words, underlined letters more important.  The are used  for   
   more important titles.   
      
    AH> The initial word of a title  is  capitalized.  Otherwise  articles,   
    AH> prepositions, and conjunctions are not capitalized.   
      
   OK.   
      
    ak>> what should you put instead of italics when write by hand?   
      
      
    AH> If you want to explain (e.g.) that "babushka"  means  "grandmother"   
    AH> in Russian,  help is available at  debate.uvm.edu/dcpdf/mlacrib.pdf   
    AH> page 3.... :-)   
      
      
    ak>> Another issue here is that the Russian quoting  system,  actually,   
    ak>> has two types of quotation.  The variant for handwriting  and  the   
    ak>> variant for books.  The fist variant is close to British,  but our   
    ak>> books have absolutely another  quotation  system.  It  looks  like   
    ak>> this:   
      
    ak>> John and Peter are talking with each other:   
    ak>> - What a nasty whether was yesterday!   
    ak>> - Yeah, I was wet as fish!   
      
    AH> We make notes handwritten in "point form" this way...  and we  tend   
    AH> to omit quotation marks in riddles where it doesn't matter who said   
    AH> what:   
      
    AH> Q. Why was the piano player arrested?   
    AH> A. He got into treble.   
      
      I think that using a hyphen instead of  quotation  marks  makes  text   
   better.  If we have a  citation  inside  direct  speech  we  put  it  in   
   quotation marks (in Russia we have double marks only).   
      
    AH> IIRC I've seen such exchanges without the "Q." & "A." in  published   
    AH> collections of jokes.  In any case,  I ran across the above example   
    AH> in a note I had written as a reminder to myself awhile ago.  I left   
    AH> out the "Q." & "A." there.... :-)   
      
      When you omit "Q." & "A." it looks strange.  At least, you should put   
   a special character to define the direct speech. Like this:   
      
   - Why was the piano player arrested?   
   - He got into treble.   
      
    AH> I found your example very interesting because as a  native  speaker   
    AH> of English I'm not likely to see such things in novels  which  have   
    AH> been translated from Russian.  Now that I think about  it...  if  I   
    AH> have chosen to read a British translation I'm not surprised to  see   
    AH> British punctuation,  and  if  I  have  chosen  to  read  a  USAian   
    AH> translation I'm  not  surprised  to  see  USAian  punctuation.  The   
    AH> punctuation sometimes  has  to  be  translated  together  with  the   
    AH> author's words,  I guess.  In any case I believe translation is  as   
    AH> much an art as a science. ;-)   
      
      Probably yeah --  Russian punctuation is a very complicated thing.  I   
   even believe,  that 99.9% of  the  Russian  people  don't  know  Russian   
   punctuation well. ;=) But I also believe that there is only one type  of   
   bad punctuation -- excessive amount of commas.   
      
    AH> In North American punctuation...  once the author  has  established   
    AH> who is speaking to whom, and whose turn it is to speak next:   
      
    AH> "What nasty weather we had yesterday!" "Yeah,  I was (as) wet as  a   
    AH> fish!"   
      
   Well, it is a way out, too.   
      
   [...All rights ignored]   
   Bye Ardith!   
   Alexander (yAlexKo[]yandex.ru) + 2:5020/2140.91   
   fido7.english-tutor 2014    
      
      
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