home bbs files messages ]

Just a sample of the Echomail archive

Cooperative anarchy at its finest, still active today. Darkrealms is the Zone 1 Hub.

   EDGE_ONLINE      End Times - Mystery Babylon and the Beas      461 messages   

[   << oldest   |   < older   |   list   |   newer >   |   newest >>   ]

   Message 219 of 461   
   Jeff Snyder to All   
   An Act Of God? - Rebuttal - Part 1   
   15 Mar 11 14:13:00   
   
   We just received a few responses to my "Japan Earthquake and Tsunami - An   
   Act of God?" post on the Endtime Prophecy Net Blog. While one response is   
   supportive of my position, the latter claims that I am in error, and that   
   among other things, God does not cause natural disasters, and He does not   
   use them as His "tools of judgment" against ungodly, sinful people. This   
   person claims that God's Wrath was forever quenched through Christ's   
   Sacrifice on the Cross, and that at this point, God is now only interested   
   in Reconciliation with humanity, and not in judgment. Following is my   
   rebuttal to the person who made these statements.   
      
   ----- Begin Quote -----   
      
   Hello _____. Thank-you for your comments. You have presented a strong,   
   well-thought-out case for supporting your position. Nevertheless, it is my   
   view that your understanding is flawed in several regards.   
      
   If we accept your reasoning and interpretation of the Scriptures, then you   
   have presented God as a weak God who is not in control of His creation. You   
   are indirectly suggesting that the Creator of the Universe has lost control   
   of what He has created. In the case of the Japan tragedies, you are   
   suggesting that He was unable to prevent the deaths of many thousands of   
   people, and the homeless status of many thousands more.   
      
   Personally, I cannot accept that. Suggesting that it is just nature doing   
   what nature does is a weak argument, and an attempt to avoid the truth   
   because it is too painful and too uncomfortable to hear. It is political   
   correctness. Imagine if the Prophets of old had been politically-correct.   
   Thank God that they weren't.   
      
   The truth of the matter is that few people want to admit that our hearts are   
   not right with God. Few people want to talk about sin. It isn't popular. It   
   doesn't bring more people into the churches, or more money into the church   
   coffers. People want to pretend that everything is okay, kind of like this:   
      
   "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is   
   condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only   
   begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into   
   the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds   
   were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to   
   the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh   
   to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in   
   God."   
   John 3:18-21, KJV   
      
   So to avoid the truth, what do we do? We try to recreate God as a   
   lovey-dovey God, when that is not what the Bible teaches us. The Bible   
   clearly reveals that our God is both a God of Love, as well as a God of   
   Wrath. I invite you to read some of my older articles such as "Love And   
   Light, Or Rod And Wrath?", "Beholding The Evil And The Good", "The Fruits Of   
   Disobedience", etc. Depending on our particular relationship to God, or lack   
   thereof, God can reveal His loving side to us, or His wrathful side to us.   
      
   Nature is not an entity. It has no mind of its own. It can make no decisions   
   of its own. I don't buy into all of that New Age Gaea nonsense or Mother   
   Nature silliness. Nature is a force which God created, and which God   
   continues to control -- at every moment. If those events occurred in Japan,   
   it is because God allowed them to happen. Things don't just happen. Natural   
   events don't just happen. As I said, God guides them and controls them. The   
   ancient Jews most certainly recognized this. Please read Moses' warning to   
   the ancient Israelites in the Pentateuch.   
      
   As you no doubt know, Jesus clearly prophesied in Matthew chapter   
   twenty-four, as well as in other chapters and books, that earthquakes would   
   be characteristic of the Endtime scenario. Obviously, He knew this, because   
   He and His Father are in control of them, just like everything else in the   
   natural world. I am convinced God uses such things as His tools of judgment.   
   The Bible is very clear about this. Again, this is discussed at length in my   
   articles.   
      
   Your claim that God's Wrath was fully quenched by Jesus' Sacrifice on the   
   Cross is likewise flawed, because you are omitting a very important part of   
   the Salvation equation, and that is repentance. Everything that you stated   
   regarding what Jesus did for us is absolutely true, and I do in fact agree   
   with it. However, where you seem to err is in assuming that this process of   
   reconciliation -- and God's Forgiveness -- is automatic, when it most   
   certainly is not. Yes, God wishes to be reconciled with the world, which is   
   why Jesus died for us all; however, as I point out in "Free Will And   
   Personal Choice", "Is Salvation Meant For All Men?", "All Are Given A   
   Chance...But" and similar articles, free will and personal choice play a   
   very important role in God's Salvation Plan.   
      
   It is my firm belief that God will not force Himself on anyone. Neither will   
   He force anyone to accept the Forgiveness and Salvation that He offers them.   
   In short, God's Forgiveness is contingent upon our personal recognition of   
   our sinful condition, true repentance, and finally, acceptance of God's Gift   
   through Jesus Christ.   
      
   God has allowed Japan to become a great and prosperous nation, and one of   
   the technological and economic powerhouses of the world. As Jesus said in   
   Matthew chapter five, God sends rain "on the just and on the unjust". Have   
   the Japanese acknowledged His blessings upon their nation? Sadly, no. In   
   spite of His many blessings, the vast majority of Japanese people do not   
   accept what God has offered them at so high a price; that price being the   
   cruel Torture and Death of His own Son.   
      
   What did Jesus say in the verses that I shared with you earlier? He said "he   
   that believeth not is condemned already". That is why I believe that the   
   Japanese are now suffering. They have rejected God's Love and Mercy through   
   Christ, and continue to embrace their false religions -- Buddhism,   
   Shintoism, etc. -- just like so many other people around the world. They   
   have slapped God in the Face for years. They have condemned themselves   
   through their own rebellion and rejection of the Sacrifice of Christ, and   
   obviously, they are not the only ones. Just look at where you find great   
   "natural disasters", and you will also find great sin if you look hard   
   enough; and yes, that includes in Haiti and New Orleans. Please consider   
   reading my series "Hurricane Katrina and Other Natural Disasters". So, due   
   to their rebellion against God, the Japanese have felt God's Wrath, just as   
   we see by this verse:   
      
   "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and   
   unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;"   
   Romans 1:18, KJV   
      
   You claim that with Christ's Death on the Cross, God's Wrath and Judgment   
   has been reserved for the Endtime, and that since Christ's Sacrifice, He has   
   been in Reconciliation Mode. Allow me to give you a clear New Testament   
   example which clearly reveals the flaw in your thinking. Consider what Jesus   
   said concerning the unbelieving Jews, and God's impending Wrath and Judgment   
   upon them:   
      
   "But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those   
   days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this   
   people."   
   Luke 21:23, KJV   
      
   As you undoubtedly know, Jesus' prophecy concerning God's Wrath against the   
   unbelieving Jews was fulfilled about forty years later, when the Romans,   
   under the command of General Titus -- the son of Emperor Vespasian --   
   utterly destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple in 70 AD. According to Jewish   
   historian Flavius Josephus, about one million Jews died as a result of the   
   First Jewish-Roman War and the siege of Jerusalem. As the previous verse   
   demonstrates, Jesus clearly prophesied this terrible destruction in the   
   Synoptic Gospels.   
      
   Now, if, as you claim, God's Wrath was quenched with Jesus' Death on the   
   Cross, why then did Jesus prophesy God's Wrath being poured out on the Jews   
   in 70 AD? Isn't there a conflict between what you are saying, and what Jesus   
   said, and what history actually records? Do you deny that the events of 70   
   AD were the result of God's Wrath being poured out upon a rebellious and   
   unbelieving people?   
      
   So why did this happen? Because God's Love, Mercy and Forgiveness are   
   contingent upon our heartfelt repentance. Yes, God indeed opened the door to   
   Forgiveness and Salvation through Christ, but if we repeatedly refuse to go   
   through the Door -- Jesus -- then we are still subject to His Wrath, now, in   
   this life. Again, as Jesus said "he that believeth not is condemned   
   already"; and once the verdict is known, the execution of the punishment   
   must be carried out at some point soon after -- "soon" obviously meaning   
   according to God's Timetable. The unbelieving Jews most certainly felt God's   
   Wrath, and many people have felt it since that time as well.   
      
   Now, you may try to claim that Luke 21:23 is talking about the wrath of the   
   Romans, but let's be honest here. You and I both know that throughout the   
   Bible, God has used foreign armies, unbelieving pagans and heathen -- the   
   Egyptians, the Assyrians, the Babylonians, the Philistines, the Romans, etc.   
   -- as His "rods of chastisement" and His "vessels of wrath" against His own   
   children. So that was indeed God's Wrath in 70 AD, forty years AFTER the   
   Sacrifice for sin was accomplished. Jesus' Sacrifice did NOT stop God's   
   Wrath.   
      
   Another point. You asked, if God is the cause of bad things happening, why   
   would He stop at New Orleans or Haiti or Japan? Well, let me ask you   
   something? What makes you so certain that He has stopped? Do you think that   
   just because a major natural disaster doesn't occur every single month or   
   every single year that He has stopped? Who are we to determine God's   
   Timetable? As Peter tells us, being that God is a Being who lives outside of   
   time, a thousand years is as a day to Him. Furthermore, if there is any   
   reason why natural disasters don't occur with more frequency, perhaps it has   
   something to do with this:   
      
   "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness;   
   but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but   
   that all should come to repentance."   
   2 Peter 3:9, KJV   
      
   In short, God gives people lots of time to repent, but eventually, their   
   time runs out, but not necessarily all at the same time.   
      
   [continued in the next message]   
      
      
      
   Jeff Snyder, SysOp - Armageddon BBS  Visit us at endtimeprophecy.org port 23   
   ----------------------------------------------------------------------------   
   Your Download Center 4 Mac BBS Software & Christian Files.  We Use Hermes II   
      
      
   --- Hermes Web Tosser 1.1   
    * Origin: Armageddon BBS -- Guam, Mariana Islands (1:345/3777.0)   

[   << oldest   |   < older   |   list   |   newer >   |   newest >>   ]


(c) 1994,  bbs@darkrealms.ca