Hi, Lee Lofaso!   
   I read your message from 27.10.2015 20:27   
      
     ak>> keep them together as a state. When the results of elections were   
     ak>> tramped by the Kiev's events in 2014 it became clear that the only   
     ak>> way available for such an Ukraine is not a building of a strong   
     ak>> single state, but a war. Those Americans (senator Mc Cain - you   
     ak>> are the first!) who inspired Ukrainian people to overthrow the   
     ak>> elected President and Government are actually responsible for the   
     ak>> blood that flows there now.   
      
     LL> Partitions have never worked. In any area of the world. At no time   
     LL> in history.   
      
   The matter is not in partitions themselves, but in people's mind. Like    
   some atoms are stable, but some tend to fall apart. If two part of    
   population extremely don't like each other and want to separate it is    
   better to separate. It will be a natural and therefore long-life    
   separation. For instance, the US, Australia, India etc separated from    
   Britain healthily. It would have been bad if Britain had managed to    
   drown them in blood and remain unity.   
      
   But when separation is made only by fucking ambitious politicians (like    
   Yeltsin, Yatsenuk etc( it is unhealthy separation. The USSR had    
   separated mostly in this way. That's why gravity between    
   eastern/southern Ukraine and Russia is much stronger than it is with    
   western part of Ukraine. _Every healthy country should have its own    
   gravity center_ which attracts all the country.   
      
     LL> The division in Vietnam did not last. The division in Korea will   
     LL> one day come to an end.   
      
   These divisions were made by politicians. Vietnam parts remained close    
   mentally. That's why their integration was very probable. Korea's parts    
   became very different and most probably incompatible.   
      
     LL> The division in Palestine will also come to an end at some point in   
     LL> time.   
      
   No, the hatred polarized people there, and ultra-nationalists are still    
   in power.   
      
     LL> India and Pakistan will not be divided forever over Kashmir   
     LL> (although Muslims and Hindus will remain divided forever). Ireland   
     LL> and Northern Ireland will one day rejoin as one.   
      
   No chance if the occupants outnumber the local people greatly.   
      
     LL> Yet we see the possible partition of not only Ukraine, but also   
     LL> Syria, taking place.   
      
   Syria was made artificially from different people groups. It was OK,    
   when the Arabs were peaceful shepherds.   
      
     NS>>> You're Vladimir Putin and you cannot allow Ukraine to join either   
     NS>>> NATO or the European Union. And you won't. The military force you   
     NS>>> have assembled on its eastern borders is the stick. But once   
     NS>>> there is a Ukrainian government you can deal with, you have an   
     NS>>> even mightier carrot to wield.   
      
     ak>> It's is provocative and mean to compare Ukraine with an animal   
     ak>> that is directed by Russia with a carrot. The main concern of   
     ak>> Russia is millions of (Russian) Ukrainians that do not support the   
     ak>> things that happened in Kiev in the spring of 2014. Actually when   
     ak>> President Yanukovich was overthrown by the crowd in Kiev, these   
     ak>> people were robbed of their choice and their right to choose their   
     ak>> destiny.   
      
     LL> The people want peace, not war. For decades the people of Ukraine   
     LL> were at peace with both themselves and their neighbors. What   
     LL> happened? How did the people of Ukraine suddenly find themselves at   
     LL> odds with not just themselves, but everybody else as well?   
      
   Ukraine is a formation of two groups of people with different mentality.    
   West and east of the Ukraine historically rejected each other. Such a    
   union cannot be stable.   
      
   Well, it is like a surgeon creates a man from two bodies, that are    
   incompatible with each other. Rejection is the most probable scenario,    
   and if there is no rejection then there is a pain in the ass. I mean    
   that is like the situation in Ukraine looks like now.   
      
      
     ak>> The problem is not is Crimea, the problem is in the inhabitant of   
     ak>> the Crimea. The West must understand that it is a propaganda lie   
     ak>> that those people had voted for separation from Ukraine under   
     ak>> Russia's threats and gun barrels. The West must understand that   
     ak>> even the bitter truth is better than a lie. The West must   
     ak>> understand what the Crimean population really think about the   
     ak>> situation on the peninsula. Then it will stop save these people   
     ak>> from themselves.   
      
     LL> I do not know, and can only venture to guess, but the population of   
     LL> Crimea (before any vote was taken) was probably 90% to 95% Russian   
     LL> speakers. Am I right? I'm willing to bet I am not far off.   
      
   Yes, and imagine that this people were not allowed to have as little as    
   street plates on their houses in Russian.   
      
     LL> Language defines a culture of a people. I know this being Cajun. It   
     LL> is not about race or nationality. Society and culture are two   
     LL> different things.   
      
   Language and also history. Crimea is a part of Russia's history, at    
   least for three centuries.   
      
     NS>>> You're Vladimir Putin, formerly of the KGB. You're Vladimir   
     NS>>> Putin, and if you've learned nothing else there, you've learned   
     NS>>> how to make an offer that can't be refused.   
      
     ak>> If the US thinks that Ukrainian should join the West they should   
     ak>> give the same right to the second part of Ukraine, which wants   
     ak>> another way. That will be democracy. We live in 21st century, and   
     ak>> we should accept divorces rather that killing our wives when they   
     ak>> are going to leave us.   
      
     LL> Ukraine must be allowed to be Ukraine. Nobody is boss of Ukrainians   
     LL> except Ukrainians themselves. As such, Ukrainians must be allowed   
     LL> to decide their own future. For themselves.   
      
   Yes, but in the latest 2015 regional elections the party of power has    
   gained just 20%. It is the result without the people of Crimea and    
   Dombass who didn't participate.   
      
   Bye, Lee!   
   Alexander Koryagin   
   fido7.debate 2015   
   --- FIDOGATE 5.1.7ds   
    * Origin: Pushkin's BBS (2:5020/2140.2)