Hello Bob,   
      
    BK> Libertarian is the least definable political philosophy I can   
    BK> think of.   
      
   Libertarian is the most definable political philosophy there is,   
   properly understood.   
      
    BK> It pretty much means what ever the speaker wants it to.   
      
   Only by those who have no idea of what libertarian is or is all   
   about.   
      
    BK> Typically self described libertarians say the only purpose   
    BK> of government is to protect the nation from invaders and   
    BK> criminals.   
      
   There is a difference between libertarian and anarchist.   
   But few know, or understand, the difference.  And even fewer   
   want to know, or understand.   
      
    BK> More recently some have boiled that down to preventing violent attacks.   
      
   Do not attack gorilla with big stick.  An ounce of prevention   
   is worth a pound of cure.  Feed the gorilla a banana.  Or a coconut.   
   Or whatever else it is hungry for.   
      
   Nah.  Neville Chamberlain tried that approach.  Didn't work.   
      
    BK> What they cannot explain is, just how does any society survive   
    BK> when there is no government agency enforcing laws against   
    BK> non-violent crime? How does a society survive when there is no   
    BK> non-violent crime?   
      
   The Catholic Church kept the peace with an inquisition ...   
      
    BK> If snake oil salesmen have the right to sell anything with no   
    BK> regard to honesty, when no one has to keep a contract, when   
    BK> there are no standards of conduct other than don't hit people,   
    BK> what kind of society can survive?   
      
   A very gullible one.   
      
    BK> It's even non-violent if the neighbors decide to use your front   
    BK> lawn as the city dump, so how does a libertarian government   
    BK> prevent that?   
      
   You don't understand.  God gave us free will.  Libertarian is   
   the only political philosophy that takes that truth seriously.   
   If your neighbors are libertarian, well, just let me say I am   
   glad I do not have to clean up the mess they leave behind.   
      
    BK> Well, now we are seeing the blessings of libertarian thinking,   
    BK> and it's expensive. The Toledo Ohio area had half a million   
    BK> people without drinking water for three days because of algae   
    BK> growing excessively in Lake Erie. Turns out this is a world   
    BK> wide phenomena, and is the result of excess phosophorus in the   
    BK> water. The excess phosophorus comes from fertilizer run off, as   
    BK> a known cause, and fossil fuel production as a secondary,   
    BK> suggested cause.   
      
   Pollution.  Global warming.  Chemical and toxic waste.  That   
   is not libertarian thinking.  It is natural and man-made causes,   
   yes.  But not a political philosophy.   
      
    BK> Libertarian thinking says the government has no business   
    BK> regulating fertilizer usage to reduce run off, after all, it   
    BK> isn't a violent act.   
      
   Again, you fail to understand what libertarian philosophy is, or   
   is all about.  Catholicism is essentially libertarian, and describes   
   the "common good" as being an essential part of that libertarian   
   philosophy.  Really.  It's in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.   
      
    BK> Yet the cost is paid by the people downstream, and without some control   
   that   
    BK> cost can be fatal.   
      
   Political anarchy is the abolition of control.  That is something   
   far different than libertarian.   
      
    BK> So, now are we going to have to fight the libertarians when we   
    BK> try to reduce fertilizer run off?   
      
   Anarchists are a distinct possibility.  Not so much libertarians.   
      
    BK> Or are they going to let their beliefs just lie dormant when it's   
    BK> inconvenient to defend them?   
      
   Those are opportunists, not anarchists or libertarians.   
      
    BK> Seems this is the best objection to libertarianism, at least the   
    BK> current brand, you will find.   
      
   The central concept of libertarian political philosophy is what   
   is known as "the nonaggression principle" - no person may initiate   
   physical force against another person.  This principle can be   
   extended to groups or nations.  Kind of a loose adaptation of The   
   Golden Rule.  And who can object to that?   
      
    BK> .. Libertarians don't build bridges.   
      
   Members of The Heinlein Society would disagree with you.  :)   
      
   --Lee   
      
   --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb   
    * Origin: news://felten.yi.org (2:203/2)