Hello Bob,   
      
   [..]   
      
    AK>> It is not pro-Russian forces are fighting   
    AK>> in eastern Ukraine. It is the Russian people who always   
    AK>> lived there, in eastern and southern Ukraine, and they were   
    AK>> extremely insulted when pro-western rebels removed their   
    AK>> candidate (Yanukovich, who won democratic elections) from   
    AK>> power.   
      
    BK> Being insulted is not ground for shooting up the place, and   
    BK> killing people. It is not grounds for seizing power. Now, how   
    BK> many Russian people live there? And why are Russians living in   
    BK> Ukraine and claiming the right to decide who rules the country?   
      
   Who has. the right to decide who gets to stay and who must leave?   
   Palestinians claim Israelis stole their land.  And they are right.   
   Many Pales"tinians have been displaced, and forced to live in   
   refugee camps as "stateless" citizens.  The land belongs to the   
   original inhabitants.  And yet other peoples from far away were   
   allowed to settle and literally steal that land from the proper   
   owners.   
      
   Of course, we did much the same thing in regards to Native   
   Americans, forcing them to live on reservations which we had   
   so conveniently set aside for them.   
      
   Hell, we were so damned nice to Injuns that we denied them   
   the right to vote - until Bill Clinton took office.  And now   
   look at what they are doing to us.  Those same Injuns are   
   taking us to court in order to keep our oil companies from   
   fracking on the land that we gave them to live on!   
      
    AK>> Rebels in Kiev were minority, but they captured   
    AK>> power by force, violating all democratic institutions and   
    AK>> election results.   
      
    BK> By force? It seems most of the force was used against them.   
    BK> According to what I have seen, the constitution was rewritten   
    BK> after Yonukovych took power, not by a constitutional convention   
    BK> or such, but by the courts. The protestors started out demanding   
    BK> the previous constitution be reinstated.   
      
    BK> ----------------------------------------------------------------   
    BK> http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-25182830   
      
   Britons are masters of deceipt.  Notice the Brits know better   
   than to have a (written) constitution of their own ...   
      
    BK> But it was the deaths of at least 88 people, many of them   
    BK> protesters shot dead by uniformed snipers in 48 hours of   
    BK> bloodshed, that ultimately brought him down.   
    BK> ----------------------------------------------------------------   
      
   According to the CIA, Libyans are the most patriotic people   
   on Earth.  For decades, they looked upon their leader as being   
   the most honest and trustworthy man who ever lived.  Libyans   
   invited Americans to their country to live and work, being ever   
   so kind to have a separate page to stamp for a passport so   
   that nobody would ever know you had been there.  Yes, my friend,   
   Libyans loved Billy Beer, which is why Billy and Moammar got   
   along so great.  But I digress.   
      
    AK>> Putin is not Hiller, just because Russia is not a fascist   
    AK>> Germany.   
      
    AK>> Russia doesn't want to rule over the world and   
    AK>> topple those governments it doesn't like. It is somebody   
    AK>> else.   
      
    BK> Russia maybe not, Putin I'm not so sure of.   
      
   Adolf Hitler sported a funny mustache.   
   Vladimir Putin sports a James Bond look.   
      
   Adolf Hitler only had one ball.   
   Vladimir Putin has a pair of huge brass balls.   
      
   Adolf Hitler despised steak, being a vegetarian.   
   Vladimir Putin indulges on mountains of red meat.   
      
    BK>>> When Obama declared he was pulling our troops out of Afghanistan   
    BK>>> and Iraq the Republicans ranted and raved about how no one would   
      
    BK> ...   
      
    AK>> It easy to explain. When you conquer a country _by military   
    AK>> invasion_ you, as a rule, can find collaborators only among   
    AK>> bastards, traitors and thieves. So, it is no wonder when   
      
    BK> Afghanistan was the base for the 9-11 attack. Iraq was a war for   
    BK> oil. We should have been out of Afghanistan quickly, and never   
    BK> in Iraq. I was talking about the republican reaction to a screw   
    BK> up series of wars, vs doing nothing or something now.   
      
   Al Qaeda was The Base (al Qaeda translated into English is The Base).   
   Osama bin Laden took credit for the attacks of 9-11, but there is   
   much that remains a mystery.  For example, President Bush was warned   
   well ahead of time that terrorists were planning such a strike, yet   
   chose to nothing to prevent it.  Minister Louis Farrakhan claims   
   that all 19 terrorists were still alive and well in the Middle   
   East after the WTC Towers came crashing down.   
      
   Did the President know about an impending terrorist attack and   
   deliberately choose to do nothing, knowing no wartime President   
   has ever lost a bid for re-election?  Did al-Qaeda really do it,   
   or was it merely a claim that was unsupported and unsubstantiated   
   by Osama bin Laden in order to appear a hero to his followers?   
   Are the alleged hijackers still alive and well, or is Minister   
   Farrakhan full of bunk?   
      
    BK>>> No matter what the status of the Ukraine and it's government,   
    BK>>> Russia is clearly an outside invader. Failing to come to their aid   
    BK>>> would be a clear sign to Putin that the West really is too weak to   
    BK>>> stop him. Not too militarily weak, on that we outweigh them in   
    BK>>> spade, but too weak morally.   
      
    AK>> It is not correct. Ask people from Israel or the US what an   
    AK>> invasion looks like. So far you can't tell of Russian   
    AK>> "invasion". People must be very accurate in such things.   
      
    BK> Putin has backed off. However, it certainly appeared he wanted   
    BK> to cut the Ukraine up.   
      
   It was never Putin's intention to invade Ukraine.   
      
    BK>   http://tinyurl.com/lsgsoqd   
      
    BK>   washingtonpost   
    BK>   ousted-ukraine-president-warns-of-civil-war-criticizes-us-for-   
    BK>   aiding-current-government   
      
    BK>   Yanukovych last appeared in public Feb. 28, in a news   
    BK>   conference also in Rostov, when he asserted he was still the   
    BK>   legal president of Ukraine and that he was not calling upon   
    BK>   Russia to intervene militarily.   
      
    BK>   The next day, Russia's parliament authorized President Vladimir   
    BK>   Putin to send troops into Ukraine, and soon thereafter Russia   
    BK>   asserted that Yanukovych had requested the intervention the day   
    BK>   after he spoke to the press.   
      
   The US Congress authorized the use of force in regards to Iraq   
   so that President Bush could force Saddam Hussein to back down   
   - thus allowing UN inspectors to continue their work in Iraq.   
   How did that work out?  Instead of diplomacy, our fine President   
   chose WAR.  We were the aggressor.  Iraq did not attack the US.   
   We attacked Iraq.   
      
   Did Russia invade Crimea?  No.   
   Did Russia invade Ukraine?  No.   
      
   The people of Crimea made their own choice to join Russia.   
   Nobody forced them to do that.  A vote was held, and it was   
   really no contest.   
      
    BK> Ousted Ukraine president warns of civil war, criticizes U.S.   
    BK> for aiding current government   
      
   Today he is nobody, a has-been politician who has lost the   
   trust of his own people.  He may have a new place to stay in   
   Russia, but he will never be loved by Russians.  That is the   
   problem with traitors.  They are seen by everyone as having   
   no honor ...   
      
    BK> "The cities are being patrolled by masked gunmen," Yanukovych   
    BK> said in a statement to the press in the southern Russian city   
    BK> of Rostov-on-Don.   
      
    BK> Yanukovych, who read from a statement in Russian and did not   
    BK> take questions, accused the West and the United States of   
    BK> backing fascists in Ukraine - another regular allegation being   
    BK> made by Russian authorities.   
      
   There are a handful of right-wing fanatics in Ukraine, but   
   they are a very small minority and of no consequence.  Most   
   Ukrainian politicians are of stable mind and are not bent   
   on national suicide.   
      
    BK> On March 6, after gunmen took over the parliament building in   
    BK> the Crimean regional capital, Simferopol, a pro-Russian   
    BK> leadership was installed. Then the regional parliament voted   
    BK> behind closed doors for Crimea to leave Ukraine and join   
    BK> Russia, setting a referendum for Sunday to validate their   
    BK> decision.   
      
   The people of Crimea have spoken, and Russia obeyed.   
      
   --Lee   
      
   --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb   
    * Origin: news://felten.yi.org (2:203/2)