BK>>I really don't think much of Thomas Friedman, but sometimes he   
   BK>>comes up with something interesting. His recent column raised   
   BK>>questions about the effects of climate change and oil depletion,   
   BK>>and their effects on Iran and Egypt. Yet it raised another   
   BK>>consideration.   
      
    TR> Thomas Friedman is yet another individual who's boots Klahn   
    TR> isn't qualified to wipe.   
      
    Richardson would spit on Friedman's boots, and not to shine   
    them, but his is so warped he now praises Friedman.   
      
    TR> Thomas Friedman was educated in no less than six   
    TR> universities, including Brandeis, Oxford, and the American   
    TR> University in Cairo.   
      
    Which does not mean he knows one damn thing about the world of   
    manufacturing, or the lives of the middle class. Yet he comments   
    on those things as if he does, which is nwy I don't think much   
    of Friedman.   
      
    TR> He is also a well-published author and has won the Pulitzer   
    TR> Prize three times.   
      
    Which does not mean he has the slighest idea what he is talking   
    about, only that he writes well.   
      
   BK>>I have long believed the great majority of Muslims don't give a   
   BK>>damn about Israel or Palestinians.   
      
    TR> For people who `don't give a damn about Israel or   
    TR> Palistinians'...they sure kill a lot of innocents.   
      
    Not Israelies or Palestinians. The great majority of Muslims are   
    no where near Israel or Palestine.   
      
    TR> And have been murdering Americans for several decades now.   
      
    And Americans and Europeans in general have been responsible for   
    inflicting brutal dictatorships on Muslims for generations. The   
    US is responsible for the breakdown of order in Iraq, and the   
    deaths of at least 100,000 people since 2003.   
      
    Just recently the CIA released a report admitting they   
    engineered the coup that put the Shah of Iran in power.   
      
   BK>>Most are far away from the area, most thousands of miles away.   
      
    TR> As we have fround out in recent years, a muslim is as far   
    TR> away as their nearest koran. The islamics are the   
    TR> modern-day inquisition: convert to islam or die.   
      
    All that does is reveal Richardson's ignorance of Islam. Now had   
    he said the Saudi based Wahhabi I would not disagree. OTOH,   
    Jews and Christians have lived under the rule of Muslim   
    governments for over a thousand years. The time of Islamic rule   
    of Spain called the period of the greatest flowering of Judaism   
    in Spain by the Jewish Virtual Library.   
      
    On top of that, Richardson is likely ignorant of the fact that   
    the Orthodox Christian Churches have a patriarch over all the   
    branches. He was originally located in Istanbul, back when it   
    was Constantinople. He is still there, after all these centuries   
    of Islamic rule, the Orthodox Christians felt no need to move   
    him to a Christian country.   
      
    TR> The Catholic Church wiped out whole ancient civilizations   
    TR> and cultures in their time.   
      
    Now he wants to go off on an anti-Catholic rant.   
      
    TR> The tremendous loss of the   
    TR> ancient library in Alexandria alone was a crime committed   
    TR> by the `Church' lost who knows how much ancient lore and   
    TR> knowledge to the world, due to the murderous zealotry of   
    TR> some Catholic fanatic bishop (or whatever he was) in   
    TR> Alexandria. The heavy-handed destruction of the materials   
      
    Which apparently is a false description of the destruction of   
    the library. Just google library of alexandria burning. I opened   
    the first four articles to show up.   
      
    TR> there that had been accumuliated since three hundred or   
    TR> more years before Christ was born, was a loss beyond   
    TR> calculation.   
      
    Other than the fact that didn't happen, what's your point? Oh,   
    the library was burned, but it wasn't just burned once, but at   
    least 3 and as many as 5 times. The records are not very good.   
      
    The first time was not long after it was built, during a civil   
    war.   
      
    The second was when Julius Caesar burned part of the city as a   
    tactic in a battle. The Library was in that part of the city,   
    though the Romans did loot a lot of the library before the   
    burning. Notice all that happend long before there were   
    Christians.   
      
    The third time was when Emporer Aurelian invaded Egypt about 273   
    AD. In 391 the Coptic Patriarch Thiophilus burned the library   
    putting down a rebellion. At that time the Coptic church was   
    Eastern Orthodox, not Roman Catholic.   
      
    There is no evidence the library was totally destroyed in any of   
    those fires, and good evidence it was not.   
      
    TR> With two thousand years of `Christianity' under our belt,   
    TR> and finally, within only the last couple of hundred years,   
    TR> winning freedom from the zealotry and blind stupidity of   
    TR> Catholicism (which caused who knows how many deaths and   
    TR> countless amounts of destruction for almost 18   
    TR> centuries)...modern man is now being assaulted by an even   
    TR> crueler and more vicious religious zealotry, Islam.   
      
    It appears you are hostile to all forms of religion. Or is it   
    just monotheism?   
      
   BK>>Muslims, for the most part, are no more aligned with or supportive of   
   BK>>others sects or even their own than Christians are of other Christians.   
      
    TR> Where we have pretty much gained control over   
    TR> Christianity's dark side...not so, Islam. The modern-day   
    TR> Islamic fanatic has far more destructive tools at their   
      
    Which seems to be a small fraction of the Islamic population.   
    Notice how the current crop of fanatics are radicalized in   
    Europe, or the US, not in the Middle East? What mosques are   
    radicalizing them? Who subsidized those mosques? Want to take   
    bets?   
      
    TR> disposal. It is only a matter of time before an aircraft   
    TR> with a nuclear weapon aboard, or a freighter or   
    TR> petroleum-bearing ship carrying carrying a nuclear missile,   
    TR> with fanatical Islamics at the controls of the one or the   
    TR> other, delivers the ultimate terrorist attack to America's   
    TR> shores.   
      
    It's only a matter of time until a fanatical Christian launches   
    a nuclear war that destroys civilization.   
      
   BK>>I am speculating that the animosity against Israel is   
   BK>>concentrated largely in the Middle East. I am further   
   BK>>speculating that is has little to do with Jew or Muslim, Abraham   
   BK>>or Muhammed, but mostly is concerned with water.   
      
    TR> So far...even counting since 9\11\2001...I haven't heard a   
    TR> single word about this all being `about water'.   
      
    What have you heard about Israel? 9-11 had nothing to do with   
    Israel. Iran has nothign to do with Israel, other than Netanyahu   
    and his groups exploitation of the situation for political gain.   
      
    TR> The whole problem is (and always has been) Israel. Jews and   
    TR> Arabs have never gotten along in five or six thousand   
    TR> years. And it wasn't about water back then, either.   
      
    Since pretty much all Jews were Arabs 6 thousand years ago,   
    until probably the Babalonian captivity, that's absurd.   
      
    Considering the majority of the Jews in Israel were Arabs until   
    the 1990s, that's again absurd.   
      
    TR> In fact... desalination plants along the Mediteranian coast   
    TR> of Israel provide a large amount of Israel's water, along   
      
    A large amount? What percentage? At what cost?   
      
    TR> with the lake Kinneret, also known as `The Sea of Galilee'.   
    TR> And a new desalination plant soon to go into operation,   
    TR> will provide Israel with around 7 million gallons of fresh   
    TR> water per hour.   
      
    Try giving your figures in terms used in Israel, so they can be   
    compared.   
      
    TR> Now...aside from a few crops of whatever they grow in the   
    TR> way of vegitables and hay or straw...I don't see Israel   
    TR> having much in the way of resources. Most of the oil is in   
    TR> Arab countries. And most Arab countries with oil are rich   
    TR> beyond any real need. So...they can build their own   
    TR> desalination plants, a lot of them.   
      
    Which Arab countries? Saudi Arabia has a per capita GDP lower   
    but a great deal than the US or many European countries. Iraq   
    has an oil industry that is still crippled. Iran is not Arab,   
    but it is hobbled by sanctions. So, where are these rich Arabs   
    who can pay for water? And are they the ones in conflict with   
    Israel?   
      
   BK>>Water is the most valuable resource in a desert land, and   
   BK>>religion can be just another division along which to align to   
   BK>>divide up the resources.   
      
    TR> It just boils down to a fanatical religion. If it were   
      
    It just boils down to the anti-religion fanatics.   
      
    TR> `about water'...why would they go to the trouble of   
    TR> declaring death sentences on anyone who insults their   
    TR> so-called prophet, Muhammad?   
      
    Since when does that have anything to do with the subject?   
      
    Anti-religion rant deleted.   
      
    TR> No...it isn't `about water'. Its about Israel. And it   
    TR> became aimed at America because of America's support of   
    TR> Israel.   
      
    Again, why would they give a damn about Israel? Notice the most   
    fanatical nation, Saudi Arabia is one Arab nation you hear so   
    little of hostility toward Israel?   
      
   BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org   http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn   
      
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