Hello Bob,   
      
    BK>> The point of affirmative action is to insure success is   
    BK>> distributed regardless of race. Only those who oppose AA must   
    BK>> believe there is no racial compenent to poverty.   
      
    LL>> The point of affirmative action is to discriminate in favor   
    LL>> of minorities - in most cases meaning blacks.  Once equality   
      
   BK>You really are not familar with the history of affirmative   
   BK>action, are you.   
      
   Of course I am!  Of course I am!  It is a history of discrimination!   
      
   BK>Some years back I found one of the annual almanacs, don't recall   
   BK>which but one of the top ones, had regular analysis of affirmative   
   BK>action. They found that 90% of the benefits of affirmative action   
   BK>went to whites.   
      
   White folks created it for their own benefit.  By creating affirmative   
   action, white folks expanded the work force for employers.  An expanded   
   work force meant more qualified workers for employers to choose from.   
      
   Although not part of affirmative action, this example says it all -   
      
   Paul "Bear" Bryant, head football coach at Alabama, wanted to offer   
   full scholarships to black athletes.  But he was unable to do so due   
   to opposition from Alabama alumni.  So he got the Alabama athletic   
   director to get in touch with the University of Southern California   
   athletic director, thus setting up a football game between Alabama   
   and USC.  The game was televised nationally, and played at Alabama.   
   USC easily won the game, by a wide margin.  I will not repeat the   
   taunts made by Alabama fans, which were very carefully edited out   
   from television.  The Alabama alumni got the picture, and from that   
   day forward allowed black athletes to receive full scholarships.   
      
    LL>> has been reached, affirmative action programs are no longer   
    LL>> needed and should be dismantled.  However, once inequalities   
    LL>> re-emerge, affirmative action programs should be put back   
    LL>> in place.  This on again/off again approach is the only way   
    LL>> affirmative action programs can work in a truly fair manner.   
      
   BK>Since Equality has not been reached, that's not relevant, yet.   
      
   The best that can be hoped for is a +/- percentage.  Not really   
   a quota system, but an approximation.   
      
    BK>> Which is true. We need affirmative action for all the poor in   
    BK>> America.   
      
    LL>> Bob Dole said much the same thing, but wanted to change it   
    LL>> from being a race-based program to being an economic-based   
      
   BK>Which would mean, in the real world, focusing on white poor   
   BK>first.   
      
   That was Bob Dole's idea, basing his argument on economic terms   
   rather than on racial terms.  Problem was he didn't follow up with   
   an actual plan of his own.   
      
    LL>> Black folks are more discriminatory of their own than any   
    LL>> other race. There are dark-skinned blacks, light-skinned   
    LL>> blacks, blacks who pass for white ...   
      
    BK>> When you are reduced to survival level your competitors are not   
    BK>> those well off, but those like you scrambling to survive.   
      
    LL>> Let's see how well those who are presently on disability   
    LL>> (SSDI) manage to survive when their checks are cut by 20   
    LL>> percent in 2016. Let's see how those on disability manage   
    LL>> to survive when conservative Republicans undo at least some   
    LL>> of Ronald Reagan's 1984 reform that expanded the kinds of   
    LL>> disabilities covered.   
      
   BK>Yes, they worship the name of Reagan, but his actual policies   
   BK>are anathema.   
      
   Ronald Reagan was another time, another place.  When the sun went   
   down, politicians would meet after hours and have a few drinks.   
   Solutions were found, cabbies made money, and floozies found love.   
   Today there is no love, cabbies have no money, and solutions are   
   nowhere to be found.   
      
    LL>> Do you think the Congress will do anything to save the SSDI   
    LL>> trust program?  By doing nothing, the cuts take effect   
      
   BK>Not if the Tea Party can stop them.   
      
   Not to worry.  Ted Cruz will come to the rescue.  After all, he has   
   already stopped the Democrats.  He has also stopped the Republicans.   
   So who else is left to stop him?  You?  Please.  Give me a break.   
      
    LL>> automatically. What will happen is Republican lawmakers   
    LL>> will say something along the lines of "Let's compromise" to   
    LL>> the Democrats, and then refuse to go along with anything   
    LL>> the Democrats propose.  To obstruct, by any means   
    LL>> necessary, resulting in getting exactly what they want,   
    LL>> while blaming Obama at the same time.   
      
   BK>Well, yeah, but that's their SOP.   
      
   Ted Cruz has a new way.   
   Well, not exactly new.   
   More like the Cruz way.   
      
    LL>> After gutting the SSDI program, Republican lawmakers will   
    LL>> move on to gutting the Social Security program for retirees   
    LL>> age 65 and over. Won't that be grand?   
      
   BK>Gutting SSDI will cause so much trouble, and even trying to end   
   BK>Social Security, the republicans will lose all the control they   
   BK>have now.   
      
   That is why the GOP had to gut SNAP first.   
   By starving the poor, there will be fewer mouths   
   to feed.  And that means less opposition from   
   the poor, disabled, and elderly.  Keep doing   
   that for a few decades and then Republicans   
   will win every election by default.   
      
    LL>> let's keep SSI and medicaid, as funding for those programs   
      
    LL>> Imagine that.  Folks who never worked a day in their life   
    LL>> are better off than folks who worked their butts off their   
    LL>> entire lives.   
      
   BK>An awful lot of those on SSI and Medicaid have worked, and   
   BK>Medicaid is 2/3rds the handicapped and elderly, last I checked.   
      
   They have not worked enough to earn the credits they need for   
   retirement.  For most people, 40 credits (quarters) is the minimum.   
   IOW, ten years of work over a lifetime (up to age 65).  It should   
   also be kept in mind that not all governors have signed on to expanded   
   medicaid, leaving many people unable to obtain insurance through   
   Obamacare.   
      
    LL>> seems to me that most folks would prefer having a bit of   
    LL>> free time after having worked for sixty or seventy fucking   
    LL>> years.   
      
   BK>Trust me, you are right. Though is just seems to me like a long   
   BK>string of days off, or a very long vacation.   
      
   That's (marginally) better than terminal sleep (death).   
      
    BK>> When I was young they could tell us, if we succeeded in school   
    BK>> we would have jobs. Now they tell kids, if they succeed in   
    BK>> school it's less likely they will be the ones without jobs,   
    BK>> someone else will be. Not much of a guarantee.   
      
    LL>> Social Security used to be a guarantee.  Not any more.   
    LL>> Pensions used to be a guarantee.  Not any more.   
      
   BK>Social security will survive, unless the republicans get so much   
   BK>power they can eliminate it quickly enough so the resistance can   
   BK>not get organized.   
      
   They'll probably water it down to the point that nobody will notice   
   when the plug is pulled.   
      
    BM>> LOL.... irony as it's best... vote for the man who doesn't give a   
    BM>> rat's ass about you.   
      
    LL>> You have to remember - we boil our crawfish LIVE.  :)   
      
    BK>> Hmmm... that seems a bit... disturbing...   
      
    LL>> Not for the crawfish.  They wave their little claws out the   
    LL>> water and stare at us with those beady little eyes ...   
      
   BK>Thinking how they would like to reverse the positions?   
      
   When you go to pick up a crawfish, the crawfish run backwards as they   
   snap their little claws trying to give you a handshake.  Of course, I   
   know that from past experience, being a real pro in conducting crawfish   
   races.  However, I have retired from that activity long ago, allowing   
   today's youngsters to have all the fun.  But I still enjoy boiling   
   those little beasts and eating as many of them as are placed on the   
   table ...   
      
   --Lee   
      
   --- MesNews/1.06.00.00-gb   
    * Origin: news://felten.yi.org (2:203/2)