Before you give me any shit about this being made up, check out   
      
    www.tinyurl.com/8qw89   
      
    This links to the ichiban1.org website, which is the website of   
    the 1st Battalion 50th Infantry Association. Hardly a bunch of   
    pot smoking college liberals. You will find my write up is   
    accruate, though covers some things more, other things less.   
      
   BK>>If you consider it a provocation to disagree with you all you   
   BK>>are doing is showing Alexander Americans can't express a   
   BK>>dissenting opinion without being attacked.   
      
    TR> You deliberately provoked me with that particular lie. You   
      
    I do not believe it to be a lie, I believe it to be the truth.   
      
    I do not care what you believe on that, I don't even care if you   
    don't read it. Stop reading this echo and I won't be able to   
    provoke you with anything.   
      
    I posted it in this echo because this echo is where the question   
    was raised.   
      
    TR> didn't have the intestinal fortitude, NOR the integrity, to   
    TR> post that line of BS in an echo I post in...you   
    TR> deliberately posted it in an echo you've banned me from,   
    TR> thinking I wouldn't respond and you'd get away with it.   
      
    I don't have to get away with posting what I believe to be true.   
    When saying what you believe to be true becomes something you   
    have to "get away with" you are dealing with a dictator wannabe.   
      
    TR> From then on...about the third time you repeated that   
    TR> BS...it would become established fact.   
      
    It is widely accepted as fact, regardless of what you believe.   
      
   BK>>It is not a lie, it is my honest opinion. If you can't accept   
   BK>>that others disagree with you that is your problem.   
      
    TR> It is an oft-repeated lie, perpetrated by the university   
    TR> dope-smokin' hippie crowd. Fact is...the U.S. Congress,   
      
    Fact is, the government of South Vietnam was incompetent and   
    corrupt. It was a military dictatorship that looted the aid the   
    US did send.   
      
    TR> which was wholly controlled by the GDF (as in *G*od *D*amn   
    TR> *F*uckin') democrats, refused to fund a return by the U.S.   
    TR> military, and the communist-sympathizing, America-hating   
      
    Why would the US military return? When the US pulled out South   
    Vietnam had the fourth largest military force in the world. By   
    the time North Vietnam began it's final offensive in Dec 1974   
    the corrupt government of South Vietnam had let that military   
    force deteriorate badly. Throughout the entire period after the   
    US withdrawal there never was much peace, but the South had the   
    larger force. Through out that time the US still gave at least   
    half a billion a year in aid, which should have been enough to   
    maintain the equipment. Somehow the idea that the US should be   
    paying all South Vietnam's military bills is absurd.   
      
    The North began it's final campaign in Dec 1974, a year before   
    they had planned to. By April it was all over. It took a full   
    year for Bush I to prepare for the invasion of Iraq the first   
    time, a full year for Bush II to prepare to invade, yet they had   
    staging basis close at hand. Who was going to stage US forces   
    near Vietnam?   
      
    If the South had honest and competent government they would not   
    only have had a much stronger military, but the confidence of   
    the US to continue support.   
      
    Instead, when the final push came, Nuguen Van Thieu, the prime   
    minister, escaped to Hawaii where he bought an expensive   
    mansion, with what must have been more than pennies from his   
    piggy bank.   
      
    Nuguen Kao Ky, the former prime minister and commander of the   
    South's military, escaped to the US west coast, where he became   
    known as the leader of a Vietnames criminal syndicate.   
      
    TR> assholes in government, along with their hippie,   
    TR> dope-smokin' coterie in the universities have since   
    TR> perpetrated the lie that America lost that war.   
      
    America didn't win the war, so that's losing. America didn't win   
    the war because we spent something around 20 years propping up   
    corrupt dictatorships. We could not win the war, only the South   
    Vietnamese could.   
      
    At no time were we actually fighting for the good of the people   
    of South Vietnam, we were fighting to stop communism, for our   
    purposes, not theirs.   
      
    TR> The hard facts are the South Vietnamese lost that war...and   
    TR> the GDF democrats in the U.S. congress made sure they did   
    TR> by letting them go down the drain!   
      
    Yet the US was subsidizing the South Vietnamese military all   
    along. And if anyone thinks $500million isn't much, remember, at   
    it's peak it was only twice that, and the last subsidy votes was   
    $700million.   
      
   BK>>Now leave the echo.   
      
    TR> Don't provoke me again.   
      
    Don't read the echo and nothing I post here can be provoking to   
    you.   
      
    ...   
      
   TR>> That is a bald-faced lie, and the person who typed it is an   
   TR>> infamous liar!   
      
    TR> We forced the North to the peace table. That counted for   
    TR> nothing as the North deliberately violated the treaty they   
    TR> signed in good faith as soon as U.S. troops had been drawn   
    TR> down, and the GDF democrats who were running the Congress   
    TR> at the time, and controlled the purse strings, wanted it   
    TR> that way. *America* didn't lose that war...the GDF   
    TR> democrats threw it away for the `bragging rights' it would   
    TR> give them politically.   
      
    That's provocation, but if you stop reading this echo I won't   
    be able to provoke you.   
      
      
      
   BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org   http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn   
      
   ...  Bob Klahn - Moderator - Debate Echo...   
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