Hi, BOB KLAHN!
I read your message from 17.08.2013 17:17
about Clandestine activity is a holy cow of democracy.
AK>> when in 1993 Eltsin in Russia had given an order to such people to
AK>> shell the Russian Parlament from tanks, point blank. He defeated
AK>> the parliamentarians, but spilt blood and had known its taste.
AK>> Literally in a year he started the far more bloody war in
AK>> Chechnya, because he thought that solving problem by brutal force
AK>> is a good and effective way to gain his aims.
BK> And where is he now? You remember him, but who is he to the rest of
BK> the world?
He died in peace, not on the yard-arm. And recently a statue of him
was erected by the local authority in his native town. Any dictatorship
has faithful followers.
BK>>> The problem with that is, in the US the underground resistance is
BK>>> made up of the ones who want to be the dictators. Their primary
BK>>> driving force is hate and bigotry.
AK>> I didn't say that criminals must be allowed to do criminal
AK>> violence. I just said that they can be defeated without turning
AK>> the country into a place where everyone is under surveillance. As
AK>> I said, such a thing is a dander itself, maybe even greater danger
AK>> for democracy than some terror attacks.
BK> That is true, but the people must be the ones to resist the
BK> underground tyrants.
Well, it depends on the damage and money losses. For instance, if you
have cockroaches underfloor you probably should make it cleaner in your
room, rather than installing surveillance cameras underfloor and killing
cockroaches with a gun or robotic rats.
AK>>>> is simple -- great injustice. So, the remedy against Arab
AK>>>> terrorism is justice, not spying on all the people around the
AK>>>> world.
BK>>> Pope John Paul II said, "If you want peace, work for justice."
BK>>> That is my motto on that subject.
AK>> I like his words, although not many think of them when they act.
AK>> For instance, after WWII justice for Jews was achieved at the
AK>> expense of Palestinian people, who is a part of a big Arab nation.
AK>> Millions of Arabs who lived in Palestine were even not consulted
AK>> when some people in Europe decided their future.
BK> Pretty much all of the Middle East was divided up that way. Ask
BK> yourself, why were a Sunni minority ruling in Iraq? Why were a Shia
BK> offshoot minority ruling Syria? Could it be the European rulers
BK> felt keeping the government seperate from the people would create
BK> client state who would become dependent on them?
The UN, before all, had NOT to follow bad exapmles. When the UN was
going to resettle all Jews in Palestine it had to understand that there
were many millions of Arabs living there and removing them from their
lands was an illegal act itself. A lot of work had to be done to work out a
compromise for both sides. Hurry is crime in this situation.
It was impossible to suppose that millions of Palestinians would be
happy with the decision and no tensions would arise. The process had to
be under the UN control, from the beginning. The UN had to maintain the
order and preserve as much justice as was possible. By letting things
developed by themselves the UN itself created a war situation that has
lasted already for 60 years and there are still no signs of peace.
Well, for instance, Gypsy some thousand years ago lived in India and
were expelled, like Jews. Let the UN decide them to settle in some area
of India. Will be a new war there? Of course it will. Such decisions
must me taken very carefully and with great responsibility. The UN still
doesn't think that the current crazy situation in Palestine is actually
the product of UN's hands.
BK>>> Afghanistan was responsible for giving Bin Laden a base. For that
BK>>> the invasion was justified.
AK>> In the East there is no more shame than to betray their guest.
AK>> Only a poor politician could imagine that the Taliban would catch
AK>> Bin Laden so to give him out to the US, the main ally of Israel, a
AK>> far more big criminal (as all the countries in the Middle East
AK>> think).
BK> If you guest commits murder you are responsible to turn him over. I
BK> doubt even in Afghanistan can you harbor a murderer, esp if he
BK> commits murder while your guest.
Customs are different around the world.
AK>> Besides, it was an unrealistic task to catch a small group of
AK>> people in the immense mountains of Afghanistan. The Taliban could
AK>> not catch Bin Laden even if they wished to do it, as Karzay.
BK> The US forces could have caught Bin Laden if Bush hadn't pulled out
BK> so many of them. The Taliban could have caught him if they wanted
BK> to. Don't over estimate the difficulty, even there it's not
BK> difficult with the right people.
In eyes of the Taliban Bin Laden was not a bigger criminal than
Israel. According to this position, if the US allows Israel to commit
crimes (it's a usual way of thinking in the M. East), why the Taliban
should to ran for Bin-Laden? IMHO, quite a logical position.
AK>> I don't think that they terrorized their own people
BK> I do. Dictatorships never hold power any other way.
AK>> before the the American led invasion. In the Afghanistan of that
AK>> time there was a usual civil war between north and south -- so
AK>> every side tried to cause as mush harm to its enemy as it could.
AK>> Terrorism is not a correct word. At present time this word became
AK>> misused very much. And in many places it helps freedom oppression.
BK> They terrorized the people, but that's not terror under current
BK> usage. Funny that.
There have been a lot of wars on Earth, but we don't call their
participants terrorists. Even if they hold a military operation with the
name "Terror in desert." ;=)
Bye, BOB!
Alexander Koryagin
fido7.debate 2013
--- FIDOGATE 5.1.7ds
* Origin: Pushkin's BBS (2:5020/2140.2)
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