On 05-26-13, BOB KLAHN said to JEFF BINKLEY:   
      
   BK>...   
      
   BM>>So, again with all respect, you're still expecting all those services   
   BM>>to be provided to you without paying the government?  Is that   
   BM>>correct?   
      
      
   JB> By the left using words like "entitlements" they promote a   
      
      
   BK>It is the right that came up with the term "entitlements" just to promote   
   BK>the idea that the people receiving services have not and will never   
   BK>contribute anything.   
      
      
   You know...your particular brand of sophistry isn't even a clever or   
   persuasive one. Its like a sledge hammer. There's no eloquence or even a feel   
   of being `almost' right to it. Nothing but a heavy-handed THUD! Like a union   
   goon shouting down someone who's trying to point out that the company doesn't   
   make enough of a profit to pay wages that lets a worker afford a cadillac   
   every two years. They're gonna have to make do with an Olds or a Chevy   
   instead.   
      
      
   And, having taken part in Fido for the last 15 or so years, its interesting   
   that you (of all people) would include in your sophistic accusation the words   
   `...the idea that the people recieving services have not and will never   
   contribute anything'. Sort of makes one wonder where you've been the last 15   
   years. That you are completely unacquainted with mssr's Sauer and Chirnside.   
      
      
   THEY recieve services and funds...and THEY cntribute nothing and never will.   
      
      
   Chirnside alone may have had a period of employment that went longer than ten   
   years. But Sauer didn't. In fact, there's nothing to show that, except the two   
   short months he was in the Air Force, and did a whole slew of things (HE   
   claims) that almost couldn't be accomplished in less than at least a year or   
   more by ordinary people, that Sauer ever contributed one single thing to his   
   own support since his discharge.   
      
      
   BK>Used to be just welfare, as part of their crusade to abolish all supports,   
   BK>including unemployment insurance. Of course many on welfare had   
   BK>contributed, and fell out of the system. Most on welfare, somewhere around   
   BK>90%, got off on their own before welfare "reform" in the mid '90s. All but   
   BK>the most extremely handicapped could and would get off welfare if we had a   
   BK>true full employment economy. However, I would bet you would oppose any   
   BK>attempt to develop such an economy.   
      
      
   Nonsense. We've been TRYING to have a `full employment' economy since I've   
   been alive!   
      
      
   It is government itself that suppresses such an economy with confiscatory   
   taxes, repressive regulations, unnecessary restrictions.   
      
      
   About fifty years ago an oil company could build a refinery and have it fully   
   operational in around 2 years. Today....even if they can get *permission* to   
   build one...it takes so long to get site, design, and capacity approved by an   
   agency that is a complete law unto itself with no Congressional control   
   whatever, that the energy crisis it was proposed and designed to deal with has   
   long since done its damage and we are now at a completely new energy logger-   
   head, and the refinery that was previously necessary not only isn't even built   
   yet, but won't be large enough to handle the new energy crisis anyway!   
      
      
   JB> culture where many folks who pay nothing to the government   
   JB> expect many services well beyond things like roads, defense   
   JB> etc.  It seems like the government  is promoting the   
   JB> culture that you are asking about.   
      
      
   BK>Like, social security, medicare, public schools, job training? Yes, all   
   BK>those are entitlements by republican think.   
      
      
   `Republican think'? `Social Security' (democrat), `medicare' (democrat)   
   `public school' date so far back it cannot even have democrat or republican   
   connotations to it! In fact the first `public school' in America was   
   established by Puritans back in 1635 in the home of a person named Pormont,   
   and there were neither `democrats' NOR `republicans' as yet!   
      
      
   BK>Anyone who spends a dime in this country pays money to the government.   
      
      
   And yet the government continually seeks more and more. And in return we seem   
   to get less and less of any importance, and more and more of frivolous   
   spending by that government.   
      
      
   BK>Since I believe in universal military service and full employment, under   
   BK>my belief system everyone will contribute.   
      
      
   Fortunately for the rest of us...YOU aren't in charge. Or we'd probably have a   
   whole lot less than we have now, which is little enough.   
      
      
      
      
      
      
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   *Durango b301 #PE*    
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