Just a sample of the Echomail archive
Cooperative anarchy at its finest, still active today. Darkrealms is the Zone 1 Hub.
|    DEBATE    |    Enjoy opinions shoved down your throat    |    4,105 messages    |
[   << oldest   |   < older   |   list   |   newer >   |   newest >>   ]
|    Message 2,854 of 4,105    |
|    TIM RICHARDSON to ALL    |
|    Austerity Failed    |
|    20 May 13 08:58:00    |
      On 05-20-13, BOB KLAHN said to ALL:              Since you saw fit to bring a controversy involving me into this echo, in       violation of your own rules AND after whining to Ed Koon about me posting in       here...I will reply to this as it contains a huge fallacy that nobody       (including *The Great and All Wise Klahn*) seems to catch onto.                     BK>http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/05/07/       BK>financial-institutions-admit-austerity-failed/                     BK>Financial Institutions Admit Austerity Failed                     ANY financial institution that claims `Austerity Failed'..isn't smart enough       to know that, when it comes to the U.S. Congress...we aren't talking about       *Austerity*..we're talking *Spend-Thrift*!                     BK>Thursday, 09 May 2013 13:32 By Ken Klippenstein                     BK>2013 has been something of a confessional period for the       BK>economic managerial class. The IMF's chief economist perhaps       BK>demonstrated this point best when he conceded that "forecasters       BK>significantly underestimated the increase in unemployment and       BK>the decline in domestic demand associated with fiscal       BK>consolidation (a polite term for "austerity)."              BK>----------------------------------------------------------------       BK>IOW, business is not hiring and expanding because they got no       BK>customers. Funny, I do believe Paul Krugman has been saying that       BK>for years.       BK>----------------------------------------------------------------                     Business `is not hiring' because of a lot of reasons. Take the biggest reason       created in just the last four years: Obamacare!                     Question:                     When did the responsibility for buying health insurance get shifted from the       employEE to the employER?                     How did that happen? Lets do a quick run-through on this. shall we?                     A prospective employEE applies to an employER for a job. The employER selects       the best qualified person from a group of applicants ande hires that person.                     The employER pays a salary. The employEE takes that salary and lives on it,       paying their basics (rent\mortgage), food, utilities, auto insurance, health       insurance, etc etc.                     Everybody's happy.                     BK>Meanwhile, Carmen Reinhart and Kenneth Rogoff, the Harvard       BK>economists responsible for one of the more influential studies       BK>used to defend austerity have admitted "austerity is not the       BK>only answer to a debt problem."                     Then they know something I don't. Because the bottom line here is, whether you       are a single person, married with children, or an entire nation...one thing       remains true over all forms of `X' (for the abstract-thinking impaired:       `X'=debt)....you cannot SPEND your way out of debt! The only way to get OUT of       debt is to pay the friggin' debt off! And you don't do that by taking NEW debt       on! I don't care how educated someone is or what prestigeous university they       are connected with....you cannot SPEND your way out of debt.                     Another thing:                     IF you are taking in $xx,xxx per year...and spending $xxx,xxsx per year.. any       second-grade student can see that $xx,xxx MINUS $xxx,xxx, is a minus number       for an answer! If you are taking $xx,xxx per year, and spending $xxx,xxx per       year for ten years or more (in the case ofthe U.S. Congress it runs into a       couple of generations of spending more than it took in. Doing the math tells       you that runs up a huge debt!), you are in serious debt.                     BK>----------------------------------------------------------------       BK>Since it doesn't work at all, it's probably not the only answer.       BK>----------------------------------------------------------------                     Yes it DOES work! HOW? you may ask? Simple! JUST STOP SPENDING....and START       PAYING OFF the debt you have now! It works! Ask anyone who's been financially       stretched out that they needed a second job to pay off a car loan, or help pay       off a second mortgage, or pay for a kid's college education. Austerity really       DOES work!                     BK>the failure to recognize that austerity didn't work during the       BK>Great Depression and won't work now, during the Great Recession.                     Thats the propaganda they spread to hide the fact that they are enemies of       austerity. IF government did nothing but provide for the nation's       infractructure, defense, and a few other essentials (and NO...abortion is NOT       an essential, and neither is nationalized health care!), and JUST STOPPED       SPENDING for frivolous things....the federal government would have a lot more       money, could pay off its debt (although now I think the national debt has       gotten to a point where I don't think it CAN be paid off) and have money laid       aside to where it could give the taxpayers some of it back!                     BK>----------------------------------------------------------------       BK>I do believe I mentioned that before. And referenced       BK>www.snipurl.com/fdr1937       BK>----------------------------------------------------------------                     Another area government doesn't belong is education. The department of       education is a useless department that should be abolished.                     Education is NOT a government responsibility on the national level. It belongs       on the state and local level.                     The EPA is an out-of-control department that has done more to stymie growth       and prosperity in the last thirty years than almost any other department in       the fed. Another thing that belongs on the state and local level and not the       federal level.                     BK>They simultaneously demand stimulus and deficit reduction. As       BK>Treasury Secretary Jack Lew put it, "We shouldn't choose between       BK>growth and job creation and getting our fiscal house in order."       BK>This is like a child wishing he could stay up all night and get       BK>a good night's sleep:                     Lets take a look at some things here in just the recent past:                     The person in the White House took this `sequester' thing and deliberately       made it as painful in various areas as possible. He cuts off White House tours       for school kids (even thouogh he's a member of the party that *claims* to be       `for the children'), yet thinks nothing of hosting a bash of so-called `super       stars' in that very same White House, at the taxpayers' expense! He did it for       *political* reasons. He doesn't give a flyin' fuck about `fly-over, USA', he       only cares about playing political games with his enemies. He's a piece of       shit! Worse even that Jimmy Carter.                     BK>----------------------------------------------------------------       BK>IOW, no matter how much they admit they were wrong, they never       BK>actually quite admit they were wrong.       BK>----------------------------------------------------------------                     The cost of Air Force One alone is right around $179,000 per hour! And that       isn't the only cost involved. There is also the cost of the fighter escort       that protects Air Force One as well, to the tune of $41,000 or more per hour       (for the F-15 Eagle).                     BK>In elite circles, "simplistic" explanations are any which       BK>involve elementary truths: that                     In the *real* world, "austerity" means spending a whole lot less than you take       in. By *real* world, I mean you and I living out here in fly-over land, who       work for a living, pay the living expenses and the income taxes that keep our       government in spending money.                     In Washington DC..."austerity" means cutting off a White House tour that costs       $xxx,xxx dollars....but SPENDING $y,yyy,yyy for one party bash...or using Air       Force One to the tune of a million dollars or more for a fund-raising tour of       the country, while cutting out day-care or school lunches (and HOW the       taxpayers ever picked up the responsibility of paying for school lunches I'll       never know!), or the cost of school nurses, or some other so-called necessity.                     The hypocrisy of that seems to have escaped our `fourth estate', who USED to       be the watchdog of our Republic, but slowly became the tool of a single       political establishment; the democrats!                            BK>----------------------------------------------------------------       BK>Like: Unemployment bad... full employment good.       BK>----------------------------------------------------------------                     Full employment would be possible if the federal government hadn't over the       years taxed and regulated full employent out of existance (and don't even get       me STARTED on the unions!), suppressed job growth, stolen money in the form of       heavier taxes on the very people who do the most to create employment (the       wealthy), and just generally presented a stumbling block for every attempt to       make this country self-sufficient, gainfully employed, energy-independent, and       a world leader in economic success.                     Austerity works just fine. Free enterprise without government interference       works just fine as well. Our Congress ought to try it sometime. But they       wouldn't know that because its been a hundred years or more since they've       practiced `austerity' in any form whatever!                     By the way....this so-called `sequester'? Don't believe they are saving a       single nickel anywhere in our government costs, whether its a democrat or a       republican doing the telling. Both sides are lying their collective ass's off       about it.                     They aren't saving anything. They are putting as much if not more out than       they are talking about. The `sequester' is just the `image on the screen' they       present to the taxpaying public, to take our attention away from the little       man behind the curtain who's pulling levers and pressing the buttons; ie:       talking a `saving money game' while spending their collective ass's off!                                                        ---       *Durango b301 #PE*         * Origin: Fidonet Since 1991 Join Us: www.DocsPlace.org (1:123/140)    |
[   << oldest   |   < older   |   list   |   newer >   |   newest >>   ]
(c) 1994, bbs@darkrealms.ca