Hello Bob,   
      
   >BB>This has been batted around before, always based on   
   >BB>marriage is to yield children. That's why the Catholic's   
   >BB>have always outlawed birth control. (Yeah, tell me about   
   >BB>it.)   
      
   >BK>Not so sure about "always". OTOH, there really hasn't been much   
   >BK>real contraception more than something like 100 years ago.   
      
   >LL>When birth control is used in order to conceive, then it is   
   >LL>not contraception.  That is why so many Catholics loved the   
   >LL>rhythm method.  Women could tell their husbands they were   
   >LL>obeying the Catholic church when they accidentally got   
   >LL>themselves pregnant ...   
      
   BK>That doesn't make much sense.   
      
   It's called Natural Family Planning.  Get it on with your wife   
   as many times as it takes to get her pregnant.  No matter how old   
   she is, do it anyway.   
      
   >BB>But if ya can't have children, for whatever reason, is the   
   >BB>marriage a sham?   
      
   >BK>No, but requires a special dispensation.   
      
   >LL>Bob!  Listen up!  We have a CHILDREN'S COURT in Louisiana!   
   >LL>Most Cajuns are Catholic.  And Catholic children are   
   >LL>allowed to get married in children's court, as long as they   
   >LL>have or get permission from their parents.  No priest need   
   >LL>be consulted.  Children under ten years old are known to   
   >LL>have gotten married this way.  I do not know how long those   
   >LL>marriages have lasted, but it was legal.   
      
   BK>That makes no sense at all.   
      
   Since when do children need a special dispensation to pump a unit?   
   (George Carlin called children who have babies pumping a unit)   
   Anyway, today it seems that children have done away with children's   
   court and are pumping out units left and right, with or without   
   their parent's permission.   
      
   >BB>Be interesting to see what the new Pope comes up with.   
   >BB>He's on record as being against abortion, gay marriage, and   
   >BB>birth control.  Nice to go back to the 1900's  :)   
      
   >BK>Never left there.   
      
   >LL>Pope Francis met with the president of Argentina yesterday.   
   >LL>The two of them have never gotten along, their differences   
   >LL>on social issues being far too great.  But both of them did   
   >LL>put on smiles for the cameras.   
      
   BK>I read about them. The pope needs to change some church   
   BK>attitudes.   
      
   The pope is a head of state, as Vatican City is an independent   
   sovereign state recognized as such by the rest of the world.   
   That has nothing to do with changing church attitudes.  As   
   a religious leader, the pope may need to change some church   
   attitudes, but I am not sure he can, even if he has the will.   
      
   >BK>Abortion does meet a biblical standard. The rest is all a matter   
   >BK>of MYOB.   
      
   >LL>Most people, whether they are liberal or conservative,   
   >LL>Catholic or non-Catholic, Christian or non-Christian, are   
   >LL>not in favor of abortion on demand.  However, that same   
   >LL>majority also views abortion as being an issue between   
   >LL>doctor and patient.  Who are we to judge what is right and   
   >LL>wrong, especially when a person's life may be at stake?   
      
   BK>Which is convoluted and confusing.   
      
   Yes, it is.  That is why Republicans want to keep and maintain   
   the status quo.  Remember, even when the Republicans contolled   
   the White House, both houses of Congress, and the Supreme Court,   
   they chose not to make abortion illegal or to overturn Roe v.   
   Wade.  Better to portray Democrats as evil baby killers ...   
      
   >LL>I am not going to tell a woman that she is going to hell   
   >LL>because she chooses (or has chosen) to have an abortion.  I   
   >LL>am not God, nor do I pretend to be.  The Church can   
   >LL>excommunicate a woman for having an abortion, but the   
   >LL>Church cannot excommunicate her from God.   
      
   BK>True.   
      
   Even if I told a woman to go to hell do you honestly think she   
   would actually listen?  If she will not listen to me, what makes   
   you think she will listen to the pope?   
      
   Wait a minute.  You just agreed with me ...   
      
   >BK> .. McGod's - Have it my way or go to Hell. - Sue Armstrong   
      
   >LL>Bill O'Reilly (a Catholic) divorced his wife (a Catholic),   
   >LL>and is seeking to get her booted out of the Catholic   
   >LL>Church.  Do you think he will get his way?  Remember -   
   >LL>money talks, people listen.   
      
   BK>Link? I'd like to see that. Ok, looked it up. Just O'Reilly   
   BK>nasty.   
      
   Just being his normal self.   
      
   --Lee   
      
      
    * SLMR 2.1a * Ferme vos guelles.   
      
   --- Maximus 3.01   
    * Origin: Xaragmata / Adelaide SA telnet://xaragmata.mooo.com (3:800/432)