BB>> Rome lasted about 300 years, we're a tad short but maybe   
    BB>> that's the benchmark?   
      
    BK>>  Rome may have lasted, but they were going down a big portion of   
    BK>>  that time. Down bigtime. We can too.   
      
    BB> But isn't that the pattern here?  1776-1976, the point   
    BB> where most agree times did change for us.  I think the   
    BB> great years, at least during my lifetime, were post-war up   
    BB> to about 1976 or so.  The VN war changed a lot of things,   
    BB> faith in the Government being a key one - then it seemed   
    BB> all kinds of things were going wrong.   
      
    BK>  Yet they also came back a lot. Bush I's Iraq war was widely   
    BK>  applauded and supported. The comeback of the economy under   
    BK>  Clinton gave a lot of people hope. The real state of   
    BK>  hopelessness is recent. Under Bush II.   
      
   Moments of hope in a general decline. Clinton did balance the budget, even got   
   some surplus, but it didn't last long.   
      
    BB> Carter and his   
    BB> failed rescue thing was another black eye for Gov't and   
    BB> Military,   
      
    BK>  If you read up on the military website, Carlisle.mil I believe,   
    BK>  you find that attempt was the seed, and provided the basis, for   
    BK>  the development of the special ops teams we now have doing   
    BK>  things like getting OBL.   
      
   Yes, but the Seals go back to WWII then known as UDT Teams.  Point is that   
   missionf failed big time.    
      
    BB> the 2k election, if we can call it that, was the   
    BB> killer for me and I've never voted a name since.   
      
    BK>  I never voted for any presidential candidate, but I voted   
    BK>  against a lot of them. That includes the 2008 race.   
      
    BB> But this just a rant from a grumpy old man - almost glad to   
    BB> see the end coming up. :)   
      
    BK>  I'm not as grumpy, but really really angry.   
      
      
   Welcome to the club. :)   
      
      
      
        
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