Hello Richard,   
      
    RC>> That employer provided healthcare came across as a benefit   
    RC>> to attract and retain good help.   
      
    RC>> Keep this in mind as you all discuss Obamacare as the best   
    RC>> thing since the formation of the solar system.   
      
    RW> OF course it did.  Remember that wages etc. were frozen   
    RW> after ww II.  Also, in some cases Rosie the Riveter had no   
    RW> choice but to remain in the workforce.   
      
   Employers had to offer incentives in order to keep and/or   
   attract the workers they needed.  However, those incentives   
   were not available for everyone, nor were those incentives   
   intented for everyone.   
      
    RW> There was competition for good workers, but with frozen   
    RW> wages other ways had to be found to compete for workers.   
    RW> HEalth care and other benefits packages proliferated.   
      
   Limited health care (and other) benefits.  And not meant to be   
   available for everyone.  Discrimination existed in those days, as   
   it does now.  Discrimination against women, discrimination against   
   older workers, discrimination against those with pre-existing   
   conditions, discrimination against people with disabilities,   
   discrimination against blacks and other racial minorities,   
   discrimination against gays and lesbians, etc., was not only   
   prevalent then, but also kept hush-hush.  Especially in areas   
   outside of the South.   
      
    RW> IN turn, those health care benefits meant that people could   
    RW> afford care who otherwise wouldn't.  Medical research took   
    RW> off, new techniques and technologies were developed.  Just   
    RW> go shake it, and fruit fell from the money tree.   
      
   Health care was not accessible to everyone.  Same as today.   
   If something is not affordable, it is not accessible.  What we   
   have today is no different than what we had yesterday.  A health   
   care system for profit.  Who benefits from such a disgusting system?   
   Who loses?  The wealthy (multi-millionaires) come out way ahead.   
   Everybody else suffers.   
      
    RW> Employers now must compete in a larger field.  FOreign   
    RW> workers don't have workplace safety rules and regs, etc.   
    RW> industry goes to the lowest cost manufacturers.  That's why   
    RW> your Apple product isn't made in the USA.  Nor is your TV   
    RW> set, your microwave oven, or your kids' toys.  The computer   
    RW> on which you're reading this wouldn't be sitting in front of you if you   
   were   
    RW> waiting for it to be made in the USA.   
      
   Young people who are able to move to China and Indonesia and   
   India and Vietnam and Mongolia and other such places are those   
   workers who are and will be in demand.  But only healthy young   
   people.  The kind who do not really need or care for health   
   insurance...   
      
    RW> Those lifesaving medical techniques and technologies aren't   
    RW> going to be available close to you if we don't have either   
    RW> government health care, or employer provided health care.   
      
   Why would China or Indonesia or India or Vietnam care about   
   what happens to a young worker from the USA who got injured on   
   the job?  Hell, those countries do not care about what happens   
   to their own workers, much less foreigners.   
      
    RW> Too few people will be able to afford the premiums.  Try   
    RW> getting affordable health insurance if you have any of a   
    RW> number of medical conditions, I dare you.   
      
   If health insurance is not affordable, access to quality health   
   care is not accessible.  And that means the wealthy continue to get   
   what they want while everybody else gets screwed.  It is time, past   
   time, that we get rid of that disgusting and sickening health care   
   for profit system we have in place.   
      
   Obama's Affordable Care Act is only marginally better than what   
   we have now, and in some ways makes it worse.  High cost, low quality   
   is what we will get when Obamacare is fully in place.  Only when this   
   country decides to get serious will we have a better system - a single   
   payer system that does not discriminate against anyone.   
      
    RW> IF there aren't enough people near you who can afford health care there   
    RW> won't be an mri machine, or a ct scanner >available within a reasonable   
    RW> distance.  That technology has to pay for itself, and it pays for itself   
    RW> only when docs use it.  IF the docs can't use it because patients can't   
    RW> afford to pay for it then it sits,  and if it sits long enough its owner   
    RW> will just sell it.  That expensive diagnostic equipment found at your   
   local   
    RW> hospital or clinic comes with   
    RW> support staff you don't see to keep it maintained and operational.  Those   
    RW> people aren't your average burger flipper type folks, they require college   
    RW> level training, and ongoing training to keep up with current developments.   
    RW> That doesn't come cheap!   
      
   Carousel (Logan's Run) would be much less expensive.  And nobody   
   would be bitchin' about what old geezers do any more.  On the other   
   hand, nobody would be eligible to serve as President (which might   
   be a plus, in some regards).   
      
    RW> This is why I commented to John the other day that we have a choice, find   
   a   
    RW> way to pay for it, or go back to 19th century levels of health care.  IF   
    RW> our employers can't afford to provide it as a benefit, then the only other   
    RW> entity which can possibly step into the gap is the federal government.   
      
   The first of all human rights is acess to quality health care.   
   If something is not affordable, it is not accessible.  Imagine   
   Carousel being the law of the land.  Everybody under the age of   
   30 has access to the very best health care - at no expense to   
   themselves.  But on their 30th birthday, well, it's a whole new   
   ball game...   
      
    RW> One of the strongest arguments I've seen for this was   
    RW> posited by the economist Robert H. Frank.   
    RW> Look him up on google or your favorite search engine.   
      
   Economics hasn't changed much over the years, or even decades.   
   However, your favorite economist wasn't much in comparisons to   
   others who were real giants in the field.   
      
    RW> I have some real philosophical problems with big government, but there are   
    RW> just some things that only government can do effectively, if we force it   
   to   
    RW> actually be accountable and responsible.  Can it do that, or will it   
   become   
    RW> just another political football to be kicked around?  IF the later then   
   the   
    RW> people lose.   
      
   Been there, done that.   
   Who led the way?   
      
   FDR saved us from the Great Depression and WWII,   
   and also gave us social security.   
      
   Harry Truman saved us from a deep recession, did away with   
   segregation in the armed forces, and kept Korea free from the   
   Communists.   
      
   JFK saved us from being nuked by Cuba, and got us started on   
   a mission to land a man on the Moon and return him safely back   
   to earth.   
      
   LBJ did wonders for Martin Luther King and the black community,   
   and also gave seniors medicare.   
      
   Jimmy Carter got the Arabs (Anwar Sadat of Egypt) and the Jews   
   (Menachim Begin of Israel) to make peace (both won a peace prize   
   as a result). Jimmy Carter later won a peace prize himself when   
   the folks in Norway realized they forgot to include him decades   
   before.   
      
   Bill Clinton went a step further and got PLO Chairman Yasser Arafat   
   and Israeli Prime Minister Yatsik Rabin to shake hands on the White   
   House lawn.  The Arab and the Jew went on to share a peace prize   
   while Clinton lied about having sex with that woman.  The folks   
   in Norway just realized they forgot to include Clinton and so   
   they awarded themselves (the European Community) the peace prize   
   this year.   
      
   Barack Obama is so smart he managed to convince the Norwegians to   
   give him a peace prize before he went off and killed Osama bin Laden.   
      
   --Lee   
      
   --- MesNews/1.06.00.00-gb   
    * Origin: news://felten.yi.org (2:203/2)