Hello Bob,   
      
   On Thu 2012-Oct-18 18:57, BOB KLAHN (1:123/140) wrote to ROSS CASSELL:   
      
    RC> That employer provided healthcare came across as a benefit   
    RC> to attract and retain good help.   
      
    RC> Keep this in mind as you all discuss Obamacare as the best   
    RC> thing since the formation of the solar system.   
      
   OF course it did.  Remember that wages etc. were frozen   
   after ww II.  Also, in some cases Rosie the Riveter had no   
   choice but to remain in the workforce.   
      
   There was competition for good workers, but with frozen   
   wages other ways had to be found to compete for workers.   
   HEalth care and other benefits packages proliferated.   
      
   IN turn, those health care benefits meant that people could   
   afford care who otherwise wouldn't.  Medical research took   
   off, new techniques and technologies were developed.  Just   
   go shake it, and fruit fell from the money tree.   
      
   Employers now must compete in a larger field.  FOreign   
   workers don't have workplace safety rules and regs, etc.   
   industry goes to the lowest cost manufacturers.  That's why   
   your Apple product isn't made in the USA.  Nor is your TV   
   set, your microwave oven, or your kids' toys.  The computer   
   on which you're reading this wouldn't be sitting in front of you if you were   
   waiting for it to be made in the USA.   
      
   Those lifesaving medical techniques and technologies aren't   
   going to be available close to you if we don't have either   
   government health care, or employer provided health care.   
   Too few people will be able to afford the premiums.  Try   
   getting affordable health insurance if you have any of a   
   number of medical conditions, I dare you.   
      
   IF there aren't enough people near you who can afford health care there won't   
   be an mri machine, or a ct scanner   
   available within a reasonable distance.  That technology has to pay for   
   itself, and it pays for itself only when docs use it.  IF the docs can't use   
   it because patients can't afford   
   to pay for it then it sits,  and if it sits long enough its   
   owner will just sell it.  That expensive diagnostic   
   equipment found at your local hospital or clinic comes with   
   support staff you don't see to keep it maintained and   
   operational.  Those people aren't your average burger   
   flipper type folks, they require college level training, and ongoing training   
   to keep up with current developments.  That doesn't come cheap!   
      
   This is why I commented to John the other day that we have a choice, find a   
   way to pay for it, or go back to 19th century levels of health care.  IF our   
   employers can't afford to   
   provide it as a benefit, then the only other entity which   
   can possibly step into the gap is the federal government.   
      
      
   One of the strongest arguments I've seen for this was   
   posited by the economist Robert H. Frank.   
   Look him up on google or your favorite search engine.   
      
   I have some real philosophical problems with big government, but there are   
   just some things that only government can do   
   effectively, if we force it to actually be accountable and   
   responsible.  Can it do that, or will it become just another political   
   football to be kicked around?  IF the later then   
   the people lose.   
      
      
   Regards,   
              Richard   
   ---   
    * Origin:  (1:116/901)