Hi Bob,   
      
   On Tue 2012-Sep-11 16:40, BOB KLAHN (1:123/140) wrote to RICHARD WEBB:   
      
      
    RW> That focus has been imposed from without, many of those   
    RW> folks, I'm sorry to say have been duped.  That's one reason   
      
   BK>  True, but the "imposed from without" is because they are so    
   BK> narrowly focused they don't recognize the outside, plus they are    
   BK> often pre-disposed to the outside influence. Plus they are out  and   
   BK> out lied to and they have so small a knowledge base they  can't see   
   BK> the lies.   
      
   Would agree with that one.   
      
    RW> why in my old age the more you shout about how much you're   
    RW> with me and wanting to make my life better the more I   
    RW> mistrust you.  What's your game/  What do you get out of   
    RW> this?  WHo are you really?  Even more important, who or   
    RW> what is behind you?   
      
   BK>  Very valid questions, which won't get answered, and they will  just   
   BK> write you off as a trivial nuisance. Me also.   
      
   Agreed, has been done, seen it personally.  That's why the   
   more noise someone makes about how they're altogether "with   
   me' and going to "improve my life" I'm very distrustful.   
      
    RW>> Right, some of what I know about the mormon church was   
    RW>> passed down from my dad's mother's side of the family, who   
    RW>> resided in western ILlinois near the town of Nauvoo before   
    RW>> they got there.  the main beef the locals had against them   
    RW>> was predatory business practices.  Had they dealt fairly   
    RW>> with their "gentile' neighbors the hue and cry against them   
    RW>> in western Illinois wouldn't have been raised.   
    RW>> Brigand Young demonstrated that it was part of their   
    RW>> culture years later with the MOuntain MEadows massacre.   
      
   BK>>  Now that about Nauvoo I had not known about. I did know about  the   
   BK>> Mountain Meadow Massacre.   
      
   Many don't.   
      
      
    RW> rumors still float around among some of the oldtimers   
    RW> around that part of the world about this one was driven out   
    RW> because the church had a craftsman they wanted to have a   
    RW> monopoly, or burnd out or in other ways driven off his land   
    RW> because the church wanted it.  Always things just at the   
    RW> edge of criminal culpability, but ...   
      
   BK>  Even beyond the edge, but they got away with it.   
      
   Uh huh, that's the stories you hear.   
      
    RW> Even then cases had to be proved in court, often difficult   
    RW> to do, but it came to the point to where they'd jailed   
    RW> Joseph Smith, and the governor of ILlinois was willing to   
    RW> extend clemency, if JOe SMith and his true faithful got   
    RW> outa Dodge.   
      
   BK>  Only the locals decided to take things into their own hands.    
      
   Yeup.  That's about the time the governor of Iowa agreed to   
   let them temporarily settle on land in Iowa, enough to get   
   themselves ready for their long trek, I think they had a   
   growing season they could use land in IOwa.   
      
    RW> To be honest, I don't believe that we'll ever sort out fact   
    RW> from fiction regarding a lot of that.  Still that gives me   
    RW> a lot of reason to distrust that church's leadership.   
      
   BK>  Like I said, any group that keeps secrets of their basic beliefs    
   BK> is a group I can't accept.   
      
   YOu and me both.  This is a group that did quite a bit of   
   pick up and resettle, and everywhere they went they cried   
   persecution at the hands of the locals.   
      
   BK>>>  Disaster preparedness is both an individual and a national   
   BK>>>  responsibility. Individual is necessary for the short term,   
   BK>>> national for the long term. And a level for everything in   
   BK>>>  between.   
      
    RW>> Again we would agree. IT's where the two meet in the   
    RW>> middle. i tell folks prepare for 7 days of "on your own"   
    RW>> after a disaster.   
      
   BK>>  That is a very good standard. More won't hurt, less just might.   
      
   BK>  True on all points. I just read a local advice bit about three    
   BK> days prepardness. That would cover almost anything that would go    
   BK> wrong short of a major national disaster. Anything local,   
   BK>  tornado, hurricane, blizzard, and such help would be there in 3    
   BK> days. Unless we have a republican president and you live in a    
   BK> democratic district. Then maybe a week.   
      
     DOn't even get me started on Katrina.  So much   
   ineptitude in one place don't think I'd ever seen before.   
   Still imho three days isn't enough, you need to plan for   
   seven.   
      
   Regards,   
              Richard   
   ... Love is being owned by a rottweiler!   
   ---   
    * Origin:  (1:116/901)