...   
      
   BK>>  True. Libertarians have a lot of good points, many of which I   
   BK>> agree with. Tea Baggers are very narrowly focused, and very  wrong   
   BK>> and very dishonest.   
      
    RW> That focus has been imposed from without, many of those   
    RW> folks, I'm sorry to say have been duped.  That's one reason   
      
    True, but the "imposed from without" is because they are so   
    narrowly focused they don't recognize the outside, plus they are   
    often pre-disposed to the outside influence. Plus they are out   
    and out lied to and they have so small a knowledge base they   
    can't see the lies.   
      
    RW> why in my old age the more you shout about how much you're   
    RW> with me and wanting to make my life better the more I   
    RW> mistrust you.  What's your game/  What do you get out of   
    RW> this?  WHo are you really?  Even more important, who or   
    RW> what is behidn you?   
      
    Very valid questions, which won't get answered, and they will   
    just write you off as a trivial nuisance. Me also.   
      
    ...   
      
   BK>>>  The fact that I have heard so much, but can't get an honest  answer   
   BK>>> to any of it disturbes me. Other than that, the clear  cults I   
   BK>>> dispise are Scientology and Moonyism. I would not vote  for anyone   
   BK>>> beloinging to either of those.   
      
    RW>> Right, some of what I know about the mormon church was   
    RW>> passed down from my dad's mother's side of the family, who   
    RW>> resided in western ILlinois near the town of Nauvoo before   
    RW>> they got there.  tHe main beef the locals had against them   
    RW>> was predatory business practices.  Had they dealt fairly   
    RW>> with their "gentile' neighbors the hue and cry against them   
    RW>> in western Illinois wouldn't have been raised.   
    RW>> Brigand Young demonstrated that it was part of their   
    RW>> culture years later with the MOuntain MEadows massacre.   
      
   BK>>  Now that about Nauvoo I had not known about. I did know about  the   
   BK>> Mountain Meadow Massacre.   
      
    RW> Right, an artisan or craftsman who was a mormon gave one   
    RW> price if you were one of the flock, another, much higher,   
    RW> if you were a "gentile" and especially if he was the only   
    RW> craftsman doing that sort of work.  There are a lot of   
      
    Which, today, would be religious discrimination.   
      
    RW> rumors still float around among some of the oldtimers   
    RW> around that part of the world about this one was driven out   
    RW> because the church had a craftsman they wanted to have a   
    RW> monopoly, or burnd out or in other ways driven off his land   
    RW> because the church wanted it.  Always things just at the   
    RW> edge of criminal culpability, but ...   
      
    Even beyond the edge, but they got away with it.   
      
    RW> Even then cases had to be proved in court, often difficult   
    RW> to do, but it came to the point to where they'd jailed   
    RW> Joseph Smith, and the governor of ILlinois was willing to   
    RW> extend clemency, if JOe SMith and his true faithful got   
    RW> outa Dodge.   
      
    Only the locals decided to take things into their own hands.   
      
    RW> To be honest, I don't believe that we'll ever sort out fact   
    RW> from fiction regarding a lot of that.  Still that gives me   
    RW> a lot of reason to distrust that church's leadership.   
      
    Like I said, any group that keeps secrets of their basic beliefs   
    is a group I can't accept.   
      
    ...   
      
   BK>>>  Disaster preparedness is both an individual and a national   
   BK>>>  responsibility. Individual is necessary for the short term,   
   BK>>> national for the long term. And a level for everything in   
   BK>>>  between.   
      
    RW>> Again we would agree. IT's where the two meet in the   
    RW>> middle. i tell folks prepare for 7 days of "on your own"   
    RW>> after a disaster.   
      
   BK>>  That is a very good standard. More won't hurt, less just might.   
      
    RW> lEss often will hurt.  IF you're prepared for 7 days you're   
    RW> good, by then you can do something about formulating a   
    RW> workable plan even if there isn't a whole lot of help   
    RW> coming from outside.  But that seven days and hopefully a   
    RW> couple more gives you some time to get your head together   
    RW> and formulate a workable plan, just in case help from   
    RW> outside hasn't arrived yet.   
      
    True on all points. I just read a local advice bit about three   
    days prepardness. That would cover almost anything that would go   
    wrong short of a major national disaster. Anything local,   
    tornado, hurricane, blizzard, and such help would be there in 3   
    days. Unless we have a republican president and you live in a   
    democratic district. Then maybe a week.   
      
      
   BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org   http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn   
      
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