Hello bob,   
      
   On Sat 2012-Aug-25 05:39, BOB KLAHN (1:123/140) wrote to RICHARD WEBB:   
      
    RW>> But there you have my only quibble.  Many true libertarians   
    RW>> I know aren't teabaggers, because they understand that the   
    RW>> teabaggers  aren't true libertarians, they've been co-opted   
      
   BK>>  All true, but I was talking about who Ron Paul appeals to, not  the   
   BK>> beliefs of Libertarians and Tea Baggers.   
      
    RW> Okay.  Just wanted to make sure libertarians aren't tarred   
    RW> with the tea party brush.  Big difference!   
      
   BK>  True. Libertarians have a lot of good points, many of which I    
   BK> agree with. Tea Baggers are very narrowly focused, and very  wrong   
   BK> and very dishonest.   
      
   That focus has been imposed from without, many of those   
   folks, I'm sorry to say have been duped.  That's one reason   
   why in my old age the more you shout about how much you're   
   with me and wanting to make my life better the more I   
   mistrust you.  What's your game/  What do you get out of   
   this?  WHo are you really?  Even more important, who or what is behidn you?   
      
    RW>> That is a very apt description of Romney.  i have enough   
    RW>> problems voting for ROmney (or any mormon for that matter)   
    RW>> let alone his attitudes.   
    RW>> I might vote for a catholic, a jew, many other folks, but I   
    RW>> don't trust that church's leadership.   
      
   BK>>  The fact that I have heard so much, but can't get an honest  answer   
   BK>> to any of it disturbes me. Other than that, the clear  cults I   
   BK>> dispise are Scientology and Moonyism. I would not vote  for anyone   
   BK>> beloinging to either of those.   
      
    RW> Right, some of what I know about the mormon church was   
    RW> passed down from my dad's mother's side of the family, who   
    RW> resided in western ILlinois near the town of Nauvoo before   
    RW> they got there.  tHe main beef the locals had against them   
    RW> was predatory business practices.  Had they dealt fairly   
    RW> with their "gentile' neighbors the hue and cry against them   
    RW> in western Illinois wouldn't have been raised.   
    RW> Brigand Young demonstrated that it was part of their   
    RW> culture years later with the MOuntain MEadows massacre.   
      
   BK>  Now that about Nauvoo I had not known about. I did know about  the   
   BK> Mountain Meadow Massacre.   
      
   Right, an artisan or craftsman who was a mormon gave one   
   price if you were one of the flock, another, much higher, if you were a   
   "gentile" and especially if he was the only   
   craftsman doing that sort of work.  There are a lot of   
   rumors still float around among some of the oldtimers around that part of the   
   world about this one was driven out because the church had a craftsman they   
   wanted to have a monopoly,   
   or burnd out or in other ways driven off his land because   
   the church wanted it.  Always things just at the edge of   
   criminal culpability, but ...   
      
   Even then cases had to be proved in court, often difficult   
   to do, but it came to the point to where they'd jailed   
   Joseph Smith, and the governor of ILlinois was willing to   
   extend clemency, if JOe SMith and his true faithful got outa Dodge.   
      
   To be honest, I don't believe that we'll ever sort out fact   
   from fiction regarding a lot of that.  Still that gives me a lot of reason to   
   distrust that church's leadership.   
      
    RW>> There are parts of mormonism I can actually relate to, i.e.   
    RW>> their beliefs that disaster preparedness is first and   
    RW>> foremost an individual responsibility, but some of the rest   
    RW>> ...   
      
   BK>>  Disaster preparedness is both an individual and a national   
   BK>>  responsibility. Individual is necessary for the short term,   
   BK>> national for the long term. And a level for everything in   
   BK>>  between.   
      
    RW> Again we would agree. IT's where the two meet in the   
    RW> middle. i tell folks prepare for 7 days of "on your own"   
    RW> after a disaster.   
      
   BK>  That is a very good standard. More won't hurt, less just might.    
      
   lEss often will hurt.  IF you're prepared for 7 days you're   
   good, by then you can do something about formulating a   
   workable plan even if there isn't a whole lot of help coming from outside.    
   But that seven days and hopefully a couple   
   more gives you some time to get your head together and   
   formulate a workable plan, just in case help from outside   
   hasn't arrived yet.   
      
   Regards,   
              Richard   
   ---   
    * Origin:  (1:116/901)