Hello John,   
      
   >BK>but I am supporting it because of it's moral weight.   
      
   >JM>Ok, So what.   
      
   >LL>Without any moral weight the US Constitution would be just   
   >LL>a "goddamn piece of paper" - as a former president is alleged   
   >LL>to have said.  IOW, the federal government would be able to   
   >LL>whatever it wants, same as a dictatorship, with no checks and   
   >LL>balances to keep it honest.   
      
   JM>It does that now.   
      
   In some ways, especially after the events of 9/11.  I am not   
   saying I agree with that approach, as such limitations on our   
   freedom can lead to the loss of our democracy and way of life.   
      
   >BK>So, do you believe in the conservative health care plan, die   
   >BK>quietly?   
      
   >JM>DO you believe that is the conservative plan?   
      
   >BK>Yes.   
      
   >JM>Then nothing anyone says to you will make any difference.   
      
   >LL>Their real plan is for po' folks to "die quickly".  :)   
      
   JM>Well it is better to burn out than to fade away.   
      
   General Douglas MacArthur lived to fight another day.   
   Japanese kamikazi pilots were not so lucky.   
      
   >BK>No, your claim to "free service" is the shallow dodge.   
      
   >JM>That's just it Bob it isn't free.   
      
   >LL>The best things in life are free.  Or should be, anyway.   
      
   JM>Some are .   
      
   In Obamaworld, everything will be free.   
      
   >LL>Given a society with low unemployment, and immigration under   
   >LL>control,   
      
   >JM>Immigration is FAR from being under control.   
      
   >LL>Immigration is less a problem today than it was four years ago.   
      
   JM>Guess we'll just have to disagree on that.   
      
   Many problems obviously remain.  But the situation is better today.   
   Perhaps the Congress should consider revisiting The Dream Act, and   
   pass it, so that young folks from other lands can have a life in   
   this great country of ours.   
      
   >JM>No they will not. The 50% +/- who pay no federal income tax will   
   >JM>still get free to them health care, that others will be responsible   
   >JM>for paying.   
      
   >LL>A progressive income tax is much fairer   
      
   JM>Define FAIR, please be specific.   
      
   Those who benefit the most from our system should pay more.   
      
   >LL>than a sales tax or   
   >LL>value added tax.  And let's not forget about payroll taxes that   
   >LL>most workers have to pay.  The cost of quality health care has   
   >LL>risen to the point that fewer and fewer people can afford it,   
   >LL>assuming they can get it at all.  And for most folks, dying   
   >LL>is not an option.  So who is going to pay for their health   
   >LL>care when they need it?   
      
   JM>Damn good question. To bad no one has the answer.   
      
   Everybody has the answer.  But only I have the right answer.   
      
   >LL>It is not a question of if, but rather   
   >LL>of when.  Letting people die is not our way.  We are Americans.   
   >LL>Not cold-blooded killers.   
      
   JM>That's right. We GIVE billions in private charity to   
   JM>support 100's if not 1000's of worth while causes.   
      
   Many do give to charity.  And charities do help lots of folks.   
   However, charities can only do so much for the overwhelming needs   
   in our society.  Which is why we need government.   
      
   >BK>except the most extreme handicapped.   
      
   >JM>And those people I don't mind helping.   
      
   >LL>We handicap ourselves by not helping each other.   
      
   JM>Is that original? sounds so 60's   
      
   Hippies had the answer.  It's too bad nobody listened,   
   or were too stoned to bother listening.   
      
   >>> Continued to next message   
      
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