On 7/19/2012 11:29, Lee Lofaso -> John Massey wrote:   
    LL> Hello John,   
      
    BK>>> but I am supporting it because of it's moral weight.   
      
    JM>> Ok, So what.   
      
    LL> Without any moral weight the US Constitution would be just   
    LL> a "goddamn piece of paper" - as a former president is alleged   
    LL> to have said.  IOW, the federal government would be able to   
    LL> whatever it wants, same as a dictatorship, with no checks and   
    LL> balances to keep it honest.   
      
   It does that now.   
      
      
      
    BK>>> So, do you believe in the conservative health care plan, die   
    BK>>> quietly?   
      
    JM>>> DO you believe that is the conservative plan?   
      
    BK>>> Yes.   
      
    JM>> Then nothing anyone says to you will make any difference.   
      
    LL> Their real plan is for po' folks to "die quickly".  :)   
      
   Well it is better to burn out than to fade away.   
      
    BK>>> No, your claim to "free service" is the shallow dodge.   
      
    JM>> That's just it Bob it isn't free.   
      
    LL> The best things in life are free.  Or should be, anyway.   
      
   Some are .   
      
      
    BK>>> Given a society with low unemployment, and immigration under   
    LL> control,   
      
    JM>> Immigration is FAR from being under control.   
      
    LL> Immigration is less a problem today than it was four years ago.   
      
   Guess we'll just have to disagree on that.   
      
      
    JM>> No they will not. The 50% +/- who pay no federal income tax will   
    JM>> still get free to them health care, that others will be responsible   
    JM>> for paying.   
      
    LL> A progressive income tax is much fairer   
      
   Define FAIR, please be specific.   
      
    LL> than a sales tax or   
    LL> value added tax.  And let's not forget about payroll taxes that   
    LL> most workers have to pay.  The cost of quality health care has   
    LL> risen to the point that fewer and fewer people can afford it,   
    LL> assuming they can get it at all.  And for most folks, dying   
    LL> is not an option.  So who is going to pay for their health   
    LL> care when they need it?   
      
   Damn good question. To bad no one has the answer.   
      
    LL> It is not a question of if, but rather   
    LL> of when.  Letting people die is not our way.  We are Americans.   
    LL> Not cold-blooded killers.   
      
   That's right. We GIVE billions in private charity to support 100's if not   
   1000's of worth while causes.   
      
    BK>>> except the most extreme handicapped.   
      
    JM>> And those people I don't mind helping.   
      
    LL> We handicap ourselves by not helping each other.   
      
   Is that original? sounds so 60's   
      
      
    BK>>> So, it won't be free service, just paid for.   
      
    JM>> By Me and 1000's like me.   
      
    LL> Thank you, John.  We really do appreciate your generous contribution.   
      
   Just paying my fair share.   
      
      
      
    JM>> And I do pay, along with most of the people in the coverage area.   
    JM>> We support the VFD and would expect them to come if we need them. If   
    JM>> my neighbor has not given a dollar in the 10 years that he has lived   
    JM>> there, He should expect  his house to go up in smoke.   
      
    LL> Neil Armstrong would have you strung up and skinned alive   
    LL> for that comment.  Had it not been for my cousin, Ed White,   
    LL> his entire family would have gone up in smoke.   
      
   You and I both know that a VFD would most likely try and save the place and   
   hope to recover the cost  from the asshole later.   
   But if for what ever reason they don't, the guy that didn't contribute   
   to the VFD has nothing he should complain about.   
      
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