JM>>>>> Yes.   Can you buy car insurance after a wreak? Can you buy   
    JM>>>>> fire insurance after the house burns down?   
      
    BK>>>>   You have to have car insurance before you drive.   
      
    JM>>> Not if you only drive on private property.   
      
    BK>>   And if you could guarantee you will never need medical care I   
    BK>>   would be willing to say you should not be required to be under   
    BK>>   the medical care insurance system.   
      
    JM> I say that if I am willing to give up claim to your medical   
    JM> care insurance system AND provide for my own future medical   
    JM> care, I should not be forced to pay into YOUR  medical care   
    JM> insurance system.   
      
    As long as the deal includes you die if you get sick and can't   
    pay for your care.   
      
    JM> I say the same thing about So-So-security.   
      
    Believe it or not, they aren't going to pass federal laws just   
    for your benefit. Or at least I hope not.   
      
    JM>>>>> What about them?  Are they expected to treat people that   
    JM>>>>> can't afford treatments.  If the person that needs treating   
    JM>>>>> can't pay who will?   
      
    BK>>>>   Thank you for admitting that your position results in, if they   
    BK>>>>   can't pay let them die.   
      
    JM>>> Life's a bitch.   
      
    BK>>   I would trade all the wealth of all the billionaires in the   
    BK>>   world for one child's life.   
      
    JM> And that would be your choice. Unfortunately for you it's   
      
    Yes, it would. And if someone you cared about were in that   
    position I would bet you would change your tune in a hurry.   
      
    JM> not yours to give. You can only give what you have. You   
      
    Yep. And the nation as a whole can give a portion of the   
    nation's wealth.   
      
    JM> seem to think because you would give more than you have, it   
    JM> gives you some sanctimonious excuse to take others'. I   
    JM> don't think it does.   
      
    You would if it was your life at stake... my bet anyway.   
      
    BK>>>>   If you chose not to have health insurance, and can't pay for   
    BK>>>>   medical care, then letting you die might be reasonable. Since   
    BK>>>>   the great majority of the uninsured have long been working poor,   
    BK>>>>   who can't afford insurance, then being poor is a death sentence   
    BK>>>>   under your theory.   
      
    JM>>> All the more reason to make life choices that help not hurt.   
      
    BK>>   That implies omnicience. Your reasoning leads to, one mistake   
    BK>>   should be a death sentence. Sorry, advanced societies don't work   
    BK>>   that way.   
      
    JM> Not one mistake. More likely,  a lifetime of bad choices.   
      
    No, more likely a lack of opportunity, or good choices at the   
    time that fell through. Remember, a huge portion of those   
    falling out now are people who had very good jobs, who did all   
    they were supposed to, but the economy collapsed under them and   
    they were too old to start over. The Enron collapse took a lot   
    of people's retirement, people who were contributing   
    memebers of society. People who were in valuable and advanced   
    positions.   
      
    JM> Ya know the old phrase every mother says after a teenage   
    JM> thug gets killed holding up the local 7-11, He's a good kid   
    JM> he just fell in with the wrong kids, well other kids  do   
      
    Now you go off on a straw man binge. When Bain Capital took over   
    the steel mill they saddled it with debt, took out a profit,   
    walked away and let it go under. That took down a lot of people   
    who worked hard for years, and were left with nothing. We have   
    seen that over and over thanks to the "private equity" leveraged   
    buyout companies.   
      
    JM> not The ones that chose not to fall in with the wrong   
    JM> crowd, the one that stay in school, don't get pregnant,   
    JM> don't get someone pregnant, stay off drugs, that will work   
    JM> at menial jobs to get experience,  most likely become   
    JM> productive citizens.   
      
    Then they lose it all when they hit 50 and their employer gets   
    bought out by a company like Bain Capital who bleeds the life   
    out of them then lets it go belly up taking out the company   
    pensions and the retirement invested in company stock.   
      
    As I have been telling people recentlym, I could inspire almost   
    100% of the students to study and work and graduate if I could   
    honestly tell them, if you do so you *WILL* have a job. Back in   
    the '50s or '60s I could do that. If you do that today you are   
    lying. This country is full of people who stayed in school,   
    didn't get pregnant, didn't do drugs, got a degree, and *ARE*   
    working at menial jobs with little opportunity for a job they   
    trained for. Look into the employment situation, a lot of   
    employers don't want to hire someone with years of menial work   
    even though they otherwise have the right degrees and a clean   
    record. Esp if all they could find is part time work.   
      
      
      
   BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org   http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn   
      
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