JM>>> You just will not admit that some jobs are "starter jobs."   
      
    BK>>   Ah, the typical evasion. Starter jobs, as a diversion from the   
    BK>>   fact that people actually have to live while starting.   
      
    JM> Teenagers living at home working for extra spending money   
    JM> do not need this make-up "living wage."   
      
    Teenagers living at home working for extra money babysit or mow   
    lawns.   
      
    JM>>> Jobs like flipping burgers at the amusement park as a   
    JM>>> summer job for teenagers, for example, do not warrant a   
    JM>>> "Living wage."   
      
    ...   
      
    JM> Most kids working for summer do not have to work to support   
    JM> a family   
      
    Amusement park jobs around here are done by college kids working   
    to pay for college. Lack of money is probably the biggest single   
    reason people drop out of college.   
      
    There used to be a day when small diners supported the owner and   
    his family, and had waitresses who were working to support   
    families. Shifting to teenagers and claiming they don't have to   
    support a family just put family supporters out of jobs. Even   
    so, in this economy, there are quite a few adults working at   
    McDonald's, trying to live on that teenager's wage.   
      
    BK>>>>   I'm sure agreement doesn't determine truth, results do. As   
    BK>>>>   unions have declined the country's workforce has lost ground,   
    BK>>>>   and the country as well.   
      
    JM>>> In your opinion.   
      
    BK>>   Which happens to be correct.   
      
    JM> In YOUR opinion   
      
    Yep, which happens to be correct.   
      
    DD>>>>>> I certainly do. As do nearly all economists - including Paul   
    BK>> Krugman   
      
    JM>>>>> So what?   
      
    BK>>>>   They are the professionals.   
      
    JM>>> Especially you, of all people, know you can find   
    JM>>> professionals on every side of any issue. None of them are   
    JM>>> correct all the time.   
      
    BK>>   The economists who take the conservative side are lining up on   
    BK>>   an agenda, and the agenda is not finding the truth.   
      
    JM> You sure about that?   
      
    Yes.   
      
    JM>>>>> What rights? 40 hr week, two week vacation, sick time,   
    JM>>>>> company car? Here's a CLUE, none of those are rights.   
      
    BK>>>>   They are if the contract says they are.   
      
    JM>>> No, Those items become compensation agreed upon, not a right   
      
    BK>>   When you have a contract you have the right to what is in the   
    BK>>   contract.   
      
      
      
    JM>>>>> My attitude is not "divide and conquer." My attitude is it   
    JM>>>>> is always better to be an individual than a member of an   
    JM>>>>> out of touch collective like a labor union.   
      
    BK>>>>   I have often told you your thinking is wrong. It is better to be   
    BK>>>>   an individual, working with other individuals, in an in touch   
    BK>>>>   collective like a labor union.   
      
    JM>>> Might be for people that have little individuality or much   
    JM>>> of a life. I would find it to be a miserable way to live.   
      
    BK>>   Yet the great majority of people will live better, they always   
    BK>>   have that way.   
      
      
    JM> No Bob, They might live better by your standards.   
    JM> Not by mine.   
      
    When you go off into the woods and become a hermit, you can make   
    that case. Otherwise, there is the fact that humans have lived   
    in communities as long as has been identified, and there is a   
    reason for that. People live better if they work together.   
      
     "I got mine" is not a value that has ever been the standard for   
     any civilization.   
      
   BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org   http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn   
      
   ... I agreed to *suspend* disbelief, not hang it 'til it dies!   
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