On 7/16/2012 21:25, BOB KLAHN -> JOHN MASSEY wrote:   
      
      
      
    BK>>>   Life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. Remember?   
      
    JM>> Is in the Preamble and has NO weight of Law.   
      
    BK>   It has moral weight. Much of what you oppose does have weight in   
    BK>   law,   
      
   So you say.   
      
    BK> but I am supporting it because of it's moral weight.   
      
   Ok, So what.   
      
    BK>>>   So, do you believe in the conservative health care plan, die   
    BK>>>   quietly?   
      
    JM>> DO you believe that is the conservative plan?   
      
    BK>   Yes.   
      
   Then nothing anyone says to you will make any difference.   
      
      
    BK>   At least, that is the plan you seem to advocate. And that   
    BK>   will be the result if the right wing plans actually supported in   
    BK>   congress are enacted.   
      
   I haven't advocated for any plan other than the private plan I have.   
      
    BK>>>>>   Non-sequitur. NO one is talking about any free service.   
      
    JM>> Yeah I know the doctors get paid.   
      
    JM>> That is such  a shallow dodge.   
      
    BK>   No, your claim to "free service" is the shallow dodge.   
      
   That's just it Bob it isn't free.   
      
      
    BK>   Given a society with low unemployment, and immigration under control,   
      
   Immigration is FAR from being under control.   
      
    BK>   everyone will pay his way .   
      
   No they will not. The 50% +/- who pay no federal income tax will still get   
   free to them health care, that others will be responsible for paying.   
      
    BK>   except the most extreme handicapped.   
      
   And those people I don't mind helping.   
      
      
    BK>   So, it won't be free service, just paid for.   
      
   By Me and 1000's like me.   
      
      
    BK>>>>>   OTOH, someone has to provide you with fire protection, police   
    BK>>>>>   protection, military protection, and far more forms of   
    BK>>>>>   protection than any of us really know. Next time you fly on an   
    BK>>>>>   airliner just hope the government is still providing you with   
    BK>>>>>   protection on aircraft.   
      
    JM>>>> Those are whole different issues.   
      
    BK>>>   The principle is the same, you require others provide those   
    BK>>>   services.   
      
    JM>> And I an willing to pay for those. I am not willing to pay   
    JM>> for someone to sorry to take care of their own healthcare's   
    JM>> medical bills.   
      
    BK>   Like I said, that's the "die quietly" health care plan.   
      
   Nothing like that.   
      
      
    JM>> Not really, Take the case of the local Volunteer Fire   
    JM>> Departments where there is a yearly fee to support the   
    JM>> department. If you don't pay the fee the VFD can and should   
    JM>> let the property burn.   
      
    BK>   Which doesn't really answer anything. You may pay a portion of   
    BK>   the VFD's cost, but it's a small portion. You need others to pay   
    BK>   the rest, if you want the service to exist at all.   
      
   And I do pay, along with most of the people in the coverage area. We support   
   the VFD and would expect them to come if we need them. If my neighbor has not   
   given a dollar in the 10 years that he has lived there, He should expect  his   
   house to go up in smoke.   
      
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