On 7/15/2012 19:23, Nicholas Boel -> John Massey wrote:   
      
    NB> Experience on both sides of the fence, buddy. That's a LOT more than what   
    NB> you're basing your biased opinions on, that's for sure.   
      
   So experience counts for you but not for me?   
      
    >> That's fine. If you are happy with what they offer you.   
      
    NB> I am. It's the best insurance and retirement package I've ever had for   
    NB> myself, or even seen in quite some time.   
      
   Like I said, if you are happy with it fine.   
      
      
    >> "A gloating session about your ownership of a company?"   
      
    >> Show where I was GLOATING about owning a company   
      
    >>>> Then does the company set your work schedule? Do you just show   
    >>>> up to work  when you want to?   
      
    NB> I took this line above as bragging that you're able to do that, and I'm   
    NB> not. If it wasn't gloating, then it had no relevance to our conversation.   
      
   Since we were talking about being free,  whether you could set your  on work   
   schedule was completely relevant.   
      
      
    >> Yes it is, but when you have nothing else...   
      
    NB> I have plenty. It is you that is regurgitating the common crap produced   
    NB> by PBS and other news media.   
      
    >> No. You believe everything your Union tells you, don't you?   
      
    NB> No. Had you been paying attention to what I've been saying, you would have   
    NB> known that by now. Then again, you have the blinders on, and you have to   
    NB> keep  regurgitating the same stuff over and over, because you have no   
   other   
    NB> arguments based on real experience, but only from what the media has told   
   you.   
      
   Again with the experience counts  for you and not for me.   
      
      
    >> Yep that happens in EVERY non-union shop all the time, every day I bet.   
    >> and you would know that  How?  Oh yeah you worked non-union before.   
    >> Yeah that' the ticket.   
      
    NB> That's a hell of a lot better of a ticket than only knowing your facts   
   from   
    NB> hearsay, and the media. So if you want to keep digging a hole, go right   
    NB> ahead.   
      
   Yet you claim to know all about non-union shops from having worked in one.   
      
    >> Nor would you give the good ones credit.   
      
    NB> Why wouldn't I?   
      
    NB> Right now we're only discussing the bad things BOTH union and non-union   
    NB> companies do.   
      
   Is that what you think?   
      
    NB> It seems as though you are the one being one-sided in this   
    NB> discussion. I'm just making you aware that this shit doesn't just occur   
    NB> on the union side of the fence, where you "think" and have "heard" that it   
    NB> happens.   
      
   I agree with you, It happens on both sides.  I don't think you on the other   
   hand, would ever agree there are some excellent non-union companies.   
      
    >> Your personal tools are YOUR responsibility. Why should the company pay   
    >> for your handtools?   
      
    NB> Respect for the employee maybe? I don't know. My company replaces any tool   
    NB> broken on the job.   
      
   So they pay for the carelessness of the hired help.   
      
      
    NB> It's probably way over your head, maybe it's a   
    NB> UUUUUUUUNNNNNNIOOOOOONN thing.    
      
   Company paying for personal tools is an invitation to fraud, waste and abuse.   
      
      
    >> No I have walked off  jobs because of safety issues.   
      
    NB> Sorry to hear you give up that easily. Instead, you could have tried to   
    NB> assist in making that job safer.   
      
   Why should I?   
      
      
      
    >> So insteat of being effecent and professional they intentionally   
    >> drag out   
    >> projects to take more money from the people footing the bill.   
      
    NB> Absolutely not. The efficiency and professionalism is there within the   
    NB> union trades. It's the non-union general contractor that makes you have a   
    NB> "toolbox talk" every morning which guarantees about 15-30 minutes   
   wasted.. and   
    NB> rigorous  safety procedures that must be followed closely (way over the   
   top of   
    NB> standard safety procedures) that slow you down. When you have to wait an   
   hour or   
    NB> two for their engineers to give you a go-ahead on coping the flange of a   
   beam to   
    NB> fit  where it needs to go.   
      
   More bilge about what non-union companies do from what sounds exactly like it   
   came from a Union blogs talking points.   
      
      
    >> But it does happen there and the American Taxpayer takes it on the   
    NB> chin.   
      
    NB> Sure it does. Most of the time it is the rules of the general   
    NB> contractor, not  the unions.   
      
   It's never the union right?   
      
      
    NB> The workers just go by those rules because they have to in   
    NB> order to keep that job.   
      
    >> Your'e career sucks? I thought you were as happy as "Union Man."   
      
    NB> I am happy. You seem to be the one trying to bring that happiness down,   
    NB> though.   
      
   Hardly, I have enough to keep me entertained and an escape plan when the   
   country goes to hell.   
      
    NB> Fortunately for me, you're digging yourself a media-induced hole a   
      
   Actually my side project is not digging a hole it's building a houseboat.   
      
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