JM>>> Then the treaties are wrong.   
      
    JM>>> Medical care is a commodity. You can not receive that care   
    JM>>> unless some one else provides it to you.   
      
   BK>>Oh, is that a meaningful comment?   
      
    LL> Who has the right to play God?  Do health insurance   
    LL> companies have the right to deny coverage to people with   
    LL> pre-existing conditions? What about doctors?  Can they do   
    LL> the same?  Pregnancy is a pre-existing condition.  Do   
    LL> health insurance companies and doctors have a right to say   
    LL> who lives, and who dies?  If "medical care is a commodity"   
    LL> then life itself is a commodity.  A commodity that can be   
    LL> bought and sold. Or deliberately withheld from those who   
    LL> desperately need it.   
      
    That is a meaningful comment. No right winger will pay any   
    attention.   
      
    JM>>> What about that   
    JM>>> persons right to be compensated for ther service or   
    JM>>> product?   
      
   BK>>You have no more right to be compensated for a service or   
   BK>>product than the person who needs it has the right to receive   
   BK>>it.   
      
    LL> Everybody has the right to life, not just some or most.  No   
    LL> government has the right to deny medical care since that   
    LL> would be denying an individual the right to life itself.   
    LL> Even those on death row are guaranteed medical care by the   
    LL> state.  After all, they cannot be executed unless they are   
    LL> alive when strapped onto a gurney.   
      
    Both true and ironic.   
      
    JM>>> If you believe  you have a "right" to "free"   
      
   BK>>Now you built a straw man. No one has said a thing about *FREE*   
   BK>>health care.   
      
    LL> It is *free* for those who receive it.  However, providers   
    LL> are compensated for their services, thanks to taxpayers.   
      
    If you have insurance you pay for it. If you get it through your   
    employer you still pay for it.   
      
    JM>>> health care , you must think it's OK to rob someone else to   
    JM>>> pay for it.   
      
   BK>>You must think a straw man is legitimate debate. Why is it OK   
   BK>>for the rich to rob the poor to become richer?   
      
    LL> Universal health care would make the costs of health care   
    LL> much more affordable for all, not just for some.  Not only   
    LL> that, but our population as a whole would be healthier, and   
    LL> people could have a longer life expectancy.   
      
    Works in all the rest of the industrialize world.   
      
    JM>>> It only free to the mucher class, it's not free to those of   
    JM>>> us paying for it.   
      
   BK>>Which is why the Heritage foundation invented the mandate, the   
   BK>>republican party proposed the mandate, and Mitt Romney included   
   BK>>the Mandate in Romney care.   
      
    LL> The so-called "mandate" is a conservative idea that   
    LL> moderates and liberals should never have even considered   
    LL> making a part of any health care package.   
      
   BK>>Which is why Obama care includes the conservative invented   
   BK>>mandate.   
      
    LL> The "mandate", as written in the Affordable Care Act, is a   
    LL> fiction. The negligible fine of $95 for not buying   
    LL> insurance can be ignored, as there is no enforcement   
    LL> mechanism in place.  IOW, the IRS cannot compel anybody to   
    LL> pay the fine (or "tax", as Chief Justice John Roberts   
    LL> called it).   
      
    True, but truth doesn't mean much to the opponents.   
      
    LL> What that means is President Barack Obama and his liberal   
    LL> allies are evil.  By including a "mandate" that folks can   
    LL> freely ignore without suffering penalty, insurance   
    LL> companies will be bled dry as they continue to lose   
    LL> customers.  As such, within a period of about ten to   
    LL> fifteen years, this country will go to a single-payer   
    LL> system or medicare-for-all, thus putting an end to the   
    LL> "health care for profit" scam we have today.   
      
    Unless the insurance companies wake up and realize even they   
    would be better off under a Swiss or Japanese plan than under a   
    failing private sector system. Better to make some money than   
    none.   
      
      
      
   BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org   http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn   
      
   ... I'm a Marxist with a Groucho attitude.   
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