On 7/8/2012 13:55, Nicholas Boel -> John Massey wrote:   
    NB>    Re: Freedom!   
    NB>    By: John Massey to Nicholas Boel on Sun Jul 08 2012 10:59 am   
      
    >> Not so sure about that. When you add back in the money taken by the   
    NB> union   
    >> for dues fees and what ever, It's about wash.   
      
    NB> Actually, no.. It's not. Even after take out the money from the union,   
    NB> we're   
    NB> still about $10/hr more than most non-union construction trades. You   
    NB> see, the   
    NB> union construction companies take care of the workers, whereas the   
    NB> non-union   
    NB> construction companies take care of the company.   
      
   So you say with NOTHING to substantiate your misguided belief.   
      
      
      
    >> If you had been given the $800.00 a month to shop for and find your own   
    >> policy designed for your needs, you could come up with a great policy.   
    >> It would be even better if you were not forced have coverage  for   
    NB> things   
    >> you don't need.   
      
    NB> Very true. That's something that comes up at every union meeting as   
    NB> well. Maybe someday that will change, since other trades do it other ways   
   already. But   
    NB> until then, I'm pretty happy with the coverages I have currently.   
      
   That's fine. If you are happy with what they offer you.   
      
    >> Then does the company set your work schedule? Do you just show up to   
    >> work  when you want to?   
      
    NB> Why has it seemed that while we're discussing one topic, you have gone   
    NB> from a  discussion about union and non-union to a gloating session about   
   your   
    NB> ownership of a company?   
      
      
    "A gloating session about your ownership of a company?"   
      
   Show where I was GLOATING about owning a company   
      
      
      
      
    NB> Yes the "company" sets my work schedule. My "union" doesn't. I show up   
    NB> whenever the general contractor needs us to show up, and put in my hours   
   set by the   
    NB> agreement with our companies owner and the general contractor. Again,   
    NB> not set forth by my union.   
      
    >>> And this is no different at non-union shops. Stopping at bars for   
    NB> lunch, coming back to the shop at the end of the day with 30-packs of   
    NB> beer to share with the rest of the guys.. all happens (and more times   
   than not) at   
    >> non-union  companies as well.   
      
    NB> This is quoting your quote, just to show you that your quoting system   
    NB> sucks.   
    NB> But that's an entirely different subject..   
      
   Yes it is, but when you have nothing else...   
      
      
    NB> No answer to this one, eh? Wanted to single out unions there by saying   
   only   
    NB> people that belong to one leave work to smoke weed and drink. Another   
    NB> nice try.   
      
    >> Good that's a start.   
      
    NB> I'm pretty sure our trade has been that way for years. So what you're   
    NB> hearing  in the media that you seem to believe everything they say, isn't   
    NB> necessarily true for all unions. Though it sure seems you like to think   
   that way.   
      
   A reasonable person knows that when ever the word all is used to describe a   
   group that there will always be the possibility of the exception. I have not   
   used the word all for that very reason.   
   You are the one using that childish dodge.   
      
      
      
      
    >> PBS other news reports and video on the internet. It's out there and   
    NB> not hard to find.   
      
    NB> You believe everything the media tells you, don't you?   
      
   No. You believe everything your Union tells you, don't you?   
      
      
      
      
    >> Just another statement that IMO, is more sentiment than fact. I   
    NB> don't know of any non-union shops that do not hire ONLY certified welders   
   for   
    NB> welds that need certification.   
      
    NB> I've told you I used to work non-union. OSHA requires ALL construction   
    NB> trades to have working and inspected ladders, too. Do you think a   
   non-union   
    NB> company  will shut the job down or tell his guys to go buy new ladders?   
   Hell no.   
    NB> They  tell you to "temporarily fix it" and you don't see a new ladder for   
    NB> another two  weeks.   
      
   Yep that happens in EVERY non-union shop all the time, every day I bet. and   
   you would know that  How?  Oh yeah you worked non-union before.   
   Yeah that' the ticket.   
      
      
      
    NB> Non-union construction trades do a hell of a lot more than that as well,   
    NB> when  it comes to not being compliant with OSHA standards. So I wouldn't   
   throw   
    NB> anything past them.   
      
   Nor would you give the good ones credit.   
      
      
    >> Like you said it's illegal; Why would any company open them self up   
    >> to the  possibility of huge fines and  perhaps criminal responsibility if   
   some   
    >> one gets killed?   
      
    NB> Because if a non-union company can get by *just* a tad longer, they'll   
   save   
    NB> and/or make more money on that job. I've seen it plenty of times.   
      
   See above   
      
    NB> I've   
    NB> had to use broken ladders, broken guards on sawzalls, broken hand tools.   
      
   No you were to weak to stand up for your own safety.YOU needed the UUNNNIOOON   
   to do what you were unwilling to do.   
      
    NB> The non-union company doesn't replace your personal tools if you break   
   them on the job   
      
   Your personal tools are YOUR responsibility. Why should the company pay for   
   your handtools?   
      
      
    NB> But you've obviously never experienced that, so you should only have on   
    NB> opinion about it.. Right?   
      
   No I have walked off  jobs because of safety issues.   
      
      
      
    NB> On multi-million dollar projects, it's always a fight as to who's work   
    NB> is what  because each trade wants all the work, so they can stay working   
   there for   
    NB> years.   
      
      
   So insteat of being effecent and professional they intentionally drag out   
   projects to take more money from the people footing the bill.   
      
      
    NB> It is true. And it's also a joke to see in real life. If you stay   
    NB> in the "real world" (meaning, staying away from power plants, shipyards,   
   and   
    NB> government funded jobs), you will probably never see that.   
      
   But it does happen there and the American Taxpayer takes it on the chin.   
      
      
    NB> So I'm still not seeing any brilliant ideas from you as to why my career   
    NB> sucks?   
   Your'e career sucks? I thought you were as happy as "Union Man."   
      
      
      
   What else you got from PBS and other news sources? *smirk*   
      
   Depressed.   
      
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